reconstruction hearing (New York) · Go Syfert
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reconstruction hearing in New York

341 New York opinions name it 5 courts 1977–2026 23 in the last five years

The cases below were cited by New York courts in a sentence that names this issue. Sides come from how each citing opinion treated the case (Syfertize flag on that citation), so a case can appear on both: that is where the law is contested. A red or yellow chip is the case's own overall treatment.

Followed or applied (58)

CaseFollowedCited
People v. Parrisgreen
ny · 2004 · cited in 20 New York opinions naming this issue, 2005–2026
2 sentences

2026Although the People bear the burden of production during a reconstruction hearing—that is, the burden to provide the evidence to reconstruct the record—the burden to overcome the presumption of regularity rests with the defendant ( Parris , 4 NY3d at 46).

2026Although the People bear the burden of production during a reconstruction hearing—that is, the burden to provide the evidence to reconstruct the record—the burden to overcome the presumption of regularity rests with the defendant ( Parris , 4 NY3d at 46 ).

1420
People v. Glassgreen
ny · 1977 · cited in 27 New York opinions naming this issue, 1984–2026
2 sentences

2022Indeed, the purpose of a reconstruction hearing is not to create a new transcript, but rather to determine "whether any significant issues arose during the voir dire and were preserved for appellate review" ( People v Parris , 4 NY3d 41, 47 [2004]; see People v Glass , 43 NY2d 283, 286 [1977]; see generally People v Rivera , 39 NY2d 519, 523 [1976]).

2022Indeed, the purpose of a reconstruction hearing is not to create a new transcript, but rather to determine "whether any significant issues arose during the voir dire and were preserved for appellate review" ( People v Parris , 4 NY3d 41, 47 [2004]; see People v Glass , 43 NY2d 283, 286 [1977]; see generally People v Rivera , 39 NY2d 519, 523 [1976]).

1327
People v. Velasquezgreen
ny · 2003 · cited in 11 New York opinions naming this issue, 2003–2025
2 sentences

2025In appropriate circumstances, a court "may hold a reconstruction hearing with the parties[ and] any witnesses or evidence the court deems helpful" ( Bethune , 29 NY3d at 541 ; see People v Velasquez , 1 NY3d 44, 49 [2003]).

2018In addition, in responding to the jury note at issue, which sought guidance as to whether to continue deliberations, the court told the jury that "we as a group would like you to keep working." Under these circumstances, there is a significant ambiguity in the record before us and a reconstruction hearing is warranted ( see People v Velasquez , 1 NY3d 44, 49 [2003]).

911
People v. Alomargreen
ny · 1999 · cited in 13 New York opinions naming this issue, 1999–2025
2 sentences

2025In sum, bearing [*3]in mind that the reconstruction hearing "was not a hearing to determine defendant's guilt, but rather one to 'reconstruct . . . the record,' " we "discern no error with the manner in which [the court] conducted the reconstruction hearing" that would constitute a violation of defendant's right to due process and warrant a new hearing ( Chappell , 198 AD3d at 1019 ; see generally Alomar , 93 NY2d at 245-246 ).

2025Given the foregoing, and contrary to defendant's assertion that the People failed to discharge their burden of reconstructing the facts of the January 16, 2013 plea proceeding given the "irregularities" of this case, "we discern no error with the manner in which County Court conducted the reconstruction hearing as it was not a hearing to determine defendant's guilt, but rather one to 'reconstruct and settle the record' " ( People v Chappell , 198 AD3d 1018, 1019 [3d Dept 2021], lv denied 37 NY3d 1160 [2022], quoting People v Alomar , 93 NY2d 239, 247 [1999]; see People v Rowles , 188 AD2d 926,

813
People v. Cruzgreen
ny · 2010 · cited in 7 New York opinions naming this issue, 2010–2020
2 sentences

2020There, as here, the matter was remitted for a reconstruction hearing in which the trial judge testified to having no independent memory of the circumstances but that, according to standard procedure, the proceeding would have been reconvened and counsel notified had the note's existence been known ( id. at 816).

2018Indeed, in People v Cruz , we heard an appeal on an O'Rama issue after a reconstruction hearing had been held—a procedure that the presiding Chief Judge characterized as a "very useful exercise" ( 14 NY3d 814, 818 [2010, Lippman, Ch.

77
People v. Riveragreen
ny · 1976 · cited in 13 New York opinions naming this issue, 1984–2026
2 sentences

2025Nor does the record support the dissent's related conclusion that the People's efforts at the reconstruction hearing evinced a lack of diligence that "hindered effective reconstruction" of the record ( cf. Rivera , 39 NY2d at 525 ; see generally Parris , 4 NY3d at 48-49 ).

2025Thus, the failure of the reconstruction hearing to produce a sufficient record for appellate review is not solely premised on a cause "beyond the control of either party" ( People v Rivera , 39 NY2d 519, 525 [1976]).

613
Williams v. Weinergreen
nyappdiv · 2007 · cited in 9 New York opinions naming this issue, 2008–2018
2 sentences

2014We therefore hold the case, reserve decision and remit the matter to Supreme Court for a reconstruction hearing on that issue (see Kahley, 105 AD3d at 1324-1325 ; see generally People v Cruz, 42 AD3d 901, 901 [2007]; People v Russo, 283 AD2d 910, 910-911 [2001], lv dismissed 96 NY2d 867 [2001]).

2014We therefore hold the case, reserve decision and remit the matter to Supreme Court for a reconstruction hearing on that issue (see Kahley, 105 AD3d at 1324-1325 ; see generally People v Cruz, 42 AD3d 901, 901 [2007]; People v Russo, 283 AD2d 910, 910-911 [2001], lv dismissed 96 NY2d 867 [2001]).

69
People v. Bedros Yavru-Sakukgreen
ny · 2002 · cited in 6 New York opinions naming this issue, 2014–2026
2 sentences

2026To obtain summary reversal based on a record defect, a defendant bears the "burden to establish that a reconstruction hearing would be futile" ( Yavru-Sakuk , 98 NY2d at 61-62).

2026To obtain summary reversal based on a record defect, a defendant bears the "burden to establish that a reconstruction hearing would be futile" ( Yavru-Sakuk , 98 NY2d at 61-62 ).

56
People v. Cruzgreen
ny · 1992 · cited in 5 New York opinions naming this issue, 1994–1994
55
People v. Favorgreen
ny · 1993 · cited in 19 New York opinions naming this issue, 1994–2010
2 sentences

2010Thus, because the record is ambiguous on the issue whether defendant was present for the Sandoval hearing, and because the Sandoval ruling was “not wholly favorable” to defendant (People v Favor, 82 NY2d 254, 267 [1993], rearg denied 83 NY2d 801 [1994]), in my view we should hold the case, reserve decision, and remit the matter to Supreme Court for a reconstruction hearing (see People v Michalek, 82 NY2d 906, 907 [1993]).

2000Thus, we remit the matter to the Supreme Court for a reconstruction hearing to determine if the defendant was present (see, People v Michalek, 82 NY2d 906 ; People v Favor, 82 NY2d 254 ; People v Dokes, 79 NY2d 656 ; People v Smythe, 216 AD2d 424 ; People v Bazil, 212 AD2d 622 ).

419
People v. O'Ramagreen
ny · 1991 · cited in 9 New York opinions naming this issue, 2013–2023
2 sentences

2023Contrary to defendant's additional contention, we conclude that the record of the reconstruction hearing conducted by the court supports its determinations that three unmarked documents contained in the court file were not jury notes that had been duly transmitted to the court during deliberations, and that there was thus no failure to comply with the procedures required by CPL 310.30 and People v O'Rama ( 78 NY2d 270 [1991]) with respect to those documents ( see People v Meyers , 162 AD3d 1074 , 1075 [2d Dept 2018], affd 33 NY3d 1018 [2019]).

2023Contrary to defendant's additional contention, we conclude that the record of the reconstruction hearing conducted by the court supports its determinations that three unmarked documents contained in the court file were not jury notes that had been duly transmitted to the court during deliberations, and that there was thus no failure to comply with the procedures required by CPL 310.30 and People v O'Rama ( 78 NY2d 270 [1991]) with respect to those documents ( see People v Meyers , 162 AD3d 1074 , 1075 [2d Dept 2018], affd 33 NY3d 1018 [2019]).

49
People v. Russogreen
nyappdiv · 2001 · cited in 8 New York opinions naming this issue, 2004–2014
2 sentences

2014We therefore hold the case, reserve decision and remit the matter to Supreme Court for a reconstruction hearing on that issue (see Kahley, 105 AD3d at 1324-1325 ; see generally People v Cruz, 42 AD3d 901, 901 [2007]; People v Russo, 283 AD2d 910, 910-911 [2001], lv dismissed 96 NY2d 867 [2001]).

2014We therefore hold the case, reserve decision and remit the matter to Supreme Court for a reconstruction hearing on that issue (see Kahley, 105 AD3d at 1324-1325 ; see generally People v Cruz, 42 AD3d 901, 901 [2007]; People v Russo, 283 AD2d 910, 910-911 [2001], lv dismissed 96 NY2d 867 [2001]).

48
People v. Antommarchigreen
ny · 1992 · cited in 8 New York opinions naming this issue, 1997–2008
2 sentences

2005Upon our earlier consideration of this appeal, we withheld decision and remitted the matter to County Court for a reconstruction hearing in order to enable us to resolve defendant’s Antommarchi claim ( 14 AD3d 877 [2005]; see People v Antommarchi, 80 NY2d 247 [1992]).

2004Upon defendant’s appeal from his conviction, this Court remanded the matter to the Supreme Court for a reconstruction hearing to resolve certain factual issues as to whether defendant knowingly, intelligently and voluntarily waived his right to attend robing room conferences with prospective jurors ( 304 AD2d 391 [2003]; see also People v Antommarchi, 80 NY2d 247 [1992]).

48
People v. Fullengreen
nyappdiv · 2014 · cited in 7 New York opinions naming this issue, 2014–2016
2 sentences

2016Thus, inasmuch as the present record does not permit us to review defendant’s contention, and he cannot be faulted for failing to prepare a proper appellate record under the circumstances, “we hold the case, reserve decision and remit the matter to [County] Court to conduct a reconstruction hearing with respect to the missing records” (People v Fullen, 118 AD3d 1297, 1298 [2014]; see People v Russell, 48 AD3d 900, 901 [2008]; cf. People v Cortijo, 254 AD2d 125, 125 [1998], lv denied 92 NY2d 1030 [1998]).

2015Memorandum: We previously held this case, reserved decision, and remitted the matter to Supreme Court to conduct a reconstruction hearing with respect to the victim’s missing psychiatric records (People v Fullen, 118 AD3d 1297 [2014]).

47
People v. Parkergreen
ny · 2018 · cited in 6 New York opinions naming this issue, 2018–2025
2 sentences

2025In that circumstance, because the reversible error is the court's failure to comply with O'Rama on the record, reconstruction of what happened off the record would be futile, and therefore a reconstruction hearing is unwarranted ( see Morrison , 32 NY3d at 952 ; Parker , 32 NY3d at 61-62 ).

2025In that circumstance, because the reversible error is the court's failure to comply with O'Rama on the record, reconstruction of what happened off the record would be futile, and therefore a reconstruction hearing is unwarranted ( see Morrison , 32 NY3d at 952 ; Parker , 32 NY3d at 61-62 ).

46
People v. Breazielgreen
nyappdiv · 1998 · cited in 4 New York opinions naming this issue, 2012–2025
44
People v. Michalekgreen
ny · 1994 · cited in 26 New York opinions naming this issue, 1994–2018
2 sentences

2018Thus, in People v Walker ( 18 NY3d 839 [2011]), we held that a reconstruction hearing was necessary to determine whether the defendant's right to be present for his Sandoval hearing was violated ( see also People v Michalek , 82 NY2d 906, 907 [1994]; People v Monclavo , 87 NY2d 1029, 1031 [1996]).

2010Thus, because the record is ambiguous on the issue whether defendant was present for the Sandoval hearing, and because the Sandoval ruling was “not wholly favorable” to defendant (People v Favor, 82 NY2d 254, 267 [1993], rearg denied 83 NY2d 801 [1994]), in my view we should hold the case, reserve decision, and remit the matter to Supreme Court for a reconstruction hearing (see People v Michalek, 82 NY2d 906, 907 [1993]).

326
People v. Odiatgreen
ny · 1993 · cited in 25 New York opinions naming this issue, 1993–2024
2 sentences

2001The record is sufficiently ambiguous with respect to whether or not defendant was present at the sidebar conferences during the second round of jury selection, December 2, 1998, to warrant a reconstruction hearing (see, People v Odiat, 82 NY2d 872 ).

1997We therefore remit the matter to the Supreme Court to hold a reconstruction hearing and to make findings of fact as to what transpired (see, People v Odiat, 82 NY2d 872 ).

325
People v. Chryslergreen
nyappdiv · 1996 · cited in 11 New York opinions naming this issue, 1996–2025
2 sentences

2014At the reconstruction hearing, “the People ha[d] the burden of establishing the facts by a preponderance of the evidence” (People v Terry, 225 AD2d 1058, 1058 [1996], lv denied 88 NY2d 886 [1996]; see People v Pitsley, 300 AD2d 1010, 1011 [2002]; People v Goodman, 284 AD2d 928, 928 [2001]; see also People v Durda, 265 AD2d 824, 824 [1999], lv denied 94 NY2d 862 [1999]; People v Nelson, 234 AD2d 977, 977 [1996], lv denied 89 NY2d 1039 [1997]).

2014At the reconstruction hearing, “the People ha[d] the burden of establishing the facts by a preponderance of the evidence” (People v Terry, 225 AD2d 1058, 1058 [1996], lv denied 88 NY2d 886 [1996]; see People v Pitsley, 300 AD2d 1010, 1011 [2002]; People v Goodman, 284 AD2d 928, 928 [2001]; see also People v Durda, 265 AD2d 824, 824 [1999], lv denied 94 NY2d 862 [1999]; People v Nelson, 234 AD2d 977, 977 [1996], lv denied 89 NY2d 1039 [1997]).

311
People v. Harrisongreen
ny · 1995 · cited in 5 New York opinions naming this issue, 1995–2025
2 sentences

2025To be sure, if a defendant shows that they are entitled to a reconstruction hearing, and that the missing transcript at issue "cannot be reconstructed . . . , there must be a reversal" ( Harrison , 85 NY2d at 796 ).

2025To be sure, if a defendant shows that they are entitled to a reconstruction hearing, and that the missing transcript at issue "cannot be reconstructed . . . , there must be a reversal" ( Harrison , 85 NY2d at 796 ).

35
The People v. Jamar Bethunegreen
ny · 2017 · cited in 5 New York opinions naming this issue, 2018–2025
2 sentences

2025In appropriate circumstances, a court "may hold a reconstruction hearing with the parties[ and] any witnesses or evidence the court deems helpful" ( Bethune , 29 NY3d at 541 ; see People v Velasquez , 1 NY3d 44, 49 [2003]).

2022We therefore reverse the order, grant the motion, and remit the matter to Supreme Court to hold a reconstruction hearing with the parties and any witnesses or evidence the court deems helpful in reconstructing, if possible, those portions of the testimony of plaintiff and defendant that could not be transcribed ( see Bethune , 29 NY3d at 541 ; Trejo , 184 AD3d at 761 ; Henderson , 140 AD3d at 1761 ; see generally CPLR 5525; Monaco v New York City Tr.

35
People v. Hendersongreen
nyappdiv · 2016 · cited in 5 New York opinions naming this issue, 2018–2023
2 sentences

2023We therefore hold the case in abeyance, reserve decision, and remit the matter to County Court for a reconstruction hearing with respect to the plea proceedings ( see People v Henderson , 140 AD3d 1761, 1761 [4th Dept 2016]; People v Manon , 123 AD3d at 468 ; People v Martino , 61 AD2d 903, 903 [1st Dept 1978]; cf. People v Childs , 232 AD2d 308, 308-309 [1st Dept 1996]; People v Allen , 224 AD2d 1027, 1027 [4th Dept 1996]; People v Rowles , 162 AD2d 774 , 774-775 [3d Dept 1990]).

2022We therefore reverse the order, grant the motion, and remit the matter to Supreme Court to hold a reconstruction hearing with the parties and any witnesses or evidence the court deems helpful in reconstructing, if possible, those portions of the testimony of plaintiff and defendant that could not be transcribed ( see Bethune , 29 NY3d at 541 ; Trejo , 184 AD3d at 761 ; Henderson , 140 AD3d at 1761 ; see generally CPLR 5525; Monaco v New York City Tr.

35
People v. Walkergreen
ny · 2011 · cited in 5 New York opinions naming this issue, 2014–2019
35
People v. Galeagreen
nyappdiv · 2008 · cited in 4 New York opinions naming this issue, 2017–2025
34
People v. Morrisongreen
ny · 2018 · cited in 4 New York opinions naming this issue, 2018–2025
34
Pilecki v. Cromwellgreen
nyappdiv · 2002 · cited in 4 New York opinions naming this issue, 2004–2014
34
People v. Meyersgreen
nyappdiv · 2021 · cited in 3 New York opinions naming this issue, 2023–2026
33
People v. Walkergreen
nyappdiv · 2014 · cited in 3 New York opinions naming this issue, 2019–2025
33
People v. Durdagreen
nyappdiv · 1999 · cited in 3 New York opinions naming this issue, 2014–2014
33
People v. Andinogreen
nyappdiv · 1992 · cited in 6 New York opinions naming this issue, 1998–2025
2 sentences

2025Even where, as here, the defendant seeks that remedy after a reconstruction hearing, "it is the defendant's burden to demonstrate that genuine appealable issues exist, and that alternative methods of providing an adequate record are not available, before the defendant is entitled to [summary] reversal of [the] conviction" and a new trial ( People v Kings , 100 AD3d 1019 , 1019 [2d Dept 2012], lv denied 20 NY3d 1062 [2013]; see People v Breaziel , 246 AD2d 310, 310-311 [1st Dept 1998], lv denied 91 NY2d 940 [1998]; People v Andino , 183 AD2d 834, 834-835 [2d Dept 1992], lv denied 80 NY2d 901 [1

2025Here, defendant "failed to demonstrate that the reconstruction hearing was inadequate to protect his right of appeal" ( Kings , 100 AD3d at 1020; see Breaziel , 246 AD2d at 310-311 ; Andino , 183 AD2d at 834-835 ; Kenefick , 144 AD2d at 997 ).

26
People v. Santiagogreen
nyappdiv · 1986 · cited in 6 New York opinions naming this issue, 1988–2012
2 sentences

1992Thus, we find that the defendant has failed to demonstrate that the reconstruction hearing was inadequate to protect his right of appeal (see, People v Glass, supra; People v Suren, supra; People v Smalls, supra).

1988Moreover, defendant has not rebutted the presumption of validity of the judgment of conviction (see, People v Bell, 36 AD2d 406 , affd 29 NY2d 882 ) by showing that the reconstruction hearing was inadequate (see, People v Glass, 43 NY2d 283 ; People v Smalls, 116 AD2d 675 , Iv denied 67 NY2d 890 ; cf., People v Rivera, 39 NY2d 519 ).

26
People v. Romangreen
ny · 1996 · cited in 6 New York opinions naming this issue, 1996–2004
2 sentences

2004Also contrary to defendant’s contention, the record of the reconstruction hearing supports the court’s determination that defendant was present at all material stages of the trial (see CPL 260.20; People v Roman, 88 NY2d 18, 25-26 [1996], rearg denied 88 NY2d 920 [1996]).

2003The record of the reconstruction hearing supports the court’s determination that there was no violation of defendant’s right to be present at any material stage of the trial (see CPL 260.20; People v Roman, 88 NY2d 18, 25-26 [1996], rearg denied 88 NY2d 920 [1996]).

26
Garner v. Garnergreen
nyappdiv · 2011 · cited in 5 New York opinions naming this issue, 2012–2014
25
People v. Goodmangreen
nyappdiv · 2001 · cited in 5 New York opinions naming this issue, 2002–2014
25
Matter of Naquan L.G. (Carolyn C.)green
nyappdiv · 2014 · cited in 4 New York opinions naming this issue, 2016–2022
24
People v. Williamsgreen
nyappdiv · 2014 · cited in 4 New York opinions naming this issue, 2015–2018
24
People v. Hasenfluegreen
nyappdiv · 2008 · cited in 4 New York opinions naming this issue, 2008–2017
24
People v. Horangreen
nyappdiv · 2001 · cited in 3 New York opinions naming this issue, 2012–2025
23
People v. Mendezgreen
ny · 2003 · cited in 3 New York opinions naming this issue, 2017–2017
23
People v. Vargasgreen
nyappdiv · 2007 · cited in 3 New York opinions naming this issue, 2017–2017
23

Distinguished, questioned or overruled (1)

CaseNegativeCited
People v. Hasenfluegreen
nyappdiv · 2008 · cited in 4 New York opinions naming this issue, 2008–2017
14

Also cited on this issue (22)

CaseCitedYears
People v. Mitchell green
nyappdiv · 1993
2 sentences

1996Memorandum: We reserved decision and remitted this matter to Supreme Court for a reconstruction hearing (People v Terry, 216 AD2d 943 ) in accordance with our decision in People v Mitchell ( 189 AD2d 337 ).

1995Memorandum: We reserved decision and remitted this matter to Onondaga County Court for a reconstruction hearing (People v Indivero, 202 AD2d 989 ) in accordance with our decision in People v Mitchell ( 189 AD2d 337 ).

251993–2003
People v. Williams neutral
ny · 1972
2 sentences

2004We therefore agree with the Appellate Division’s decision in People v Bell ( 36 AD2d 406, 408 [2d Dept 1971], affd without op 29 NY2d 882 [1972]), holding that a defendant who has pleaded guilty, in order to obtain a reconstruction hearing, “must set forth appealable grounds, i.e., the nature of those issues which *50 would have been raised on appeal had the plea and sentence minutes been available.” As the Appellate Division explained in Bell, in such a case the presumption of regularity of judicial proceedings is reinforced by another presumption—“that by pleading guilty a ‘defendant has nei

1988We find that the reconstruction hearing was an appropriate method of determining that in this case the lack of a complete transcript did not deprive the defendant of an opportunity to raise genuine appealable issues (see, People v Bell, 36 AD2d 406, 408 , affd 29 NY2d 882 ).

71984–2012
Hurd v. Hurd green
scotus · 1970
2 sentences

2019Therefore, we withhold decision and remit the matter to County Court to conduct a reconstruction hearing, at which testimony of defense counsel, the trial judge and others may be necessary ( see People v Hudson , 19 NY2d 137, 140 [1967], cert denied 398 US 944 [1970]; People v Hasenflue , 24 AD3d 1017, 1018 [2005]; People v Kennedy , 151 AD2d at 832 ; People v Graham , 127 AD2d at 446 ; People v Wright , 105 AD2d 1088, 1088 [1984]).

2005Nevertheless, since the requirements of CPL article 730 may be satisfied by a reconstruction hearing (see People v Hudson, 19 NY2d 137 [1967], cert denied 398 US 944 [1970]; People v Rodriguez, 6 AD3d 814, 817 [2004]), we withhold decision on this appeal and remit the matter to County Court to conduct the required competency examination of defendant.

51986–2019
People v. Bleakley green
ny · 1987
51995–2018
People v. McCullough neutral
nyappdiv · 1998
51998–2002
People v. Pagan neutral
nyappdiv · 1994
51995–1995
People v. Gebrosky neutral
ny · 1992
51994–1994
People v. Faulkner green
ny · 2008
42017–2025
People v. Kahley green
nyappdiv · 2013
42014–2019
In re Stephen B. green
nyappdiv · 1993
41993–2014
People v. Walker neutral
ny · 1993
41994–2003
People v. Davis neutral
nyappdiv · 1995
41996–2001
People v. Johnson neutral
nyappdiv · 1994
41995–2000
Peolple v. Carney green
nyappdiv · 1980
41980–1997
People v. Erali neutral
nyappdiv · 1994
41994–1995
People v. Hall green
ny · 2008
32017–2017
People v. Gonzalez green
ny · 2008
32017–2017
People v. Lykes green
ny · 1993
32013–2013
Hall v. Ladson green
nyappdiv · 2005
32011–2012
People v. Mulholland green
nyappdiv · 1987
31987–2008
People v. Davidson green
ny · 1996
31997–2008
People v. Tor neutral
nyappdiv · 1998
32000–2008

Statutes the citing opinions construe

NY § N.Y. Penal Law § 125.25 (21) NY § N.Y. Penal Law § 110.00 (13)

Counted by distinct opinions that both name this issue and are annotated to the section; sections every opinion cites regardless of issue are not filtered here, so read the counts against the total above.

Where else courts name it

NY 341 (1977–2026) OR 4 (2012–2025) NM 3 (2002–2015) CO 2 (2004–2009) WA 2 (2007–2007) SC 2 (2007–2016)

Opinions by the citing court's state. A doctrine retained in one state and abandoned in another shows up here as a year span that stalls.

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