Major Carl J. Sammt, R.A., Appellant/cross-Appellee v. The United States, Appellee/cross-Appellant, 780 F.2d 31 (Fed. Cir. 1985). · Go Syfert
Major Carl J. Sammt, R.A., Appellant/cross-Appellee v. The United States, Appellee/cross-Appellant, 780 F.2d 31 (Fed. Cir. 1985). Cases Citing This Book View Copy Cite
167 citation events (69 in the last 25 years) across 5 distinct courts.
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At page 32 Mandatory retirement negates voluntary retirement claim33 citing cases“the exercise of an option to retire is not rendered involuntary by the imminent imposition of a less desirable alternative.”7 citing courts quote it · 31 listed here
  • Reaves v. United States, No. 16-141 (Fed. Cl. Aug. 10, 2021).published 2 cites
    (If his retirement was voluntary, no jurisdiction resides in the Claims Court.)
  • Peterson v. United States, 104 Fed. Cl. 196 (Fed. Cl. 2012).published 2 cites
    ([T]he exercise of an option to retire is not rendered involuntary by the imminent imposition of a less desirable alternative.)
  • L.Y.N.N. v. United States, 58 Fed. Cl. 797 (Fed. Cl. 2003).published 2 cites
    ([W]e conclude, as we have in civilian pay cases, that the exercise of an option to retire is not rendered involuntary by the imminent imposition of a less desirable alternative.)
  • Richardson v. United States, No. 20-86, 2022 WL 1744501 (Fed. Cl. May 31, 2022).unpublished
    In that case, as in the instant case, the plaintiff was notified that his tenure as an active-duty officer would end on a certain date unless he requested retirement at an earlier date. 780 F.2d at 31-32.
  • Reaves v. United States, No. 21-2306 (Fed. Cir. Feb. 10, 2022).unpublished
    Id. at 1318 (citing Sammt, 780 F.2d at 32-33).
  • Sommers v. United States, No. 14-690 (Fed. Cl. Aug. 4, 2020).published 2 cites
    (ECF 94 at 15-16 (citing Sammt v. United States, 780 F.2d 31, 33 (Fed. Cir. 1985)).) The plaintiff disagrees, arguing that his retirement was involuntary under the test announced in Carmichael v. United States, 298 F.3d 1367, 1372 (Fed. Ci…
  • Captain Ross E. Joslyn v. United States, 110 Fed. Cl. 372 (Fed. Cl. 2013).published 2 cites
    A resignation “is not rendered involuntary by the imminent imposition of a less desirable alternative.” Sammt v. United States, 780 F.2d 31, 32 (Fed.Cir.1985); see Scarseth v. United States, 52 Fed.Cl. 458, 474 (2002) (“The fact that [the…
  • Murphy v. United States, 69 Fed. Cl. 593 (Fed. Cl. 2006).published 4 cites
    See Carmichael v. United States, 298 F.3d at 1371 (“If a discharge from service is voluntary, then the Court of Federal Claims lacks jurisdiction to review the discharge or any back pay damages claims.”); Moyer v. United States, 190 F.3d 1…
  • Robert G. Smith v. Sec'y of the Army, & Army Bd. for Corr. of Military Records, 384 F.3d 1288 (Fed. Cir. 2004).published
    See Moyer v. United States, 190 F.3d 1314, 1318 (Fed.Cir.1999); Tippett v. United States, 185 F.3d 1250, 1255 (Fed.Cir.1999); Holley, 124 F.3d at 1465 ; Adkins v. United States, 68 F.3d 1317, 1321 (Fed.Cir.1995); Sammt v. United States, 78…
  • Scarseth v. United States, 52 Fed. Cl. 458 (Fed. Cl. 2002).published 2 cites
    Sammt v. United States, 780 F.2d 31, 33 (Fed.Cir.1985).
Show 21 more citing cases
  • Gavin v. United States, 47 Fed. Cl. 486 (Fed. Cl. 2000).published
    See Adkins v. United States, 68 F.3d 1317, 1321 (Fed.Cir.1995); Sammt v. United States, 780 F.2d 31, 32-33 (Fed.Cir.1985).
  • Cottrell v. United States, 42 Fed. Cl. 144 (Fed. Cl. 1998).published
    See Adkins v. United States, 68 F.3d 1317, 1321 (Fed.Cir.1996) (no jurisdiction in case of voluntary resignation); Sammt v. United States, 780 F.2d 31, 32 (Fed.Cir.1985).
  • Norris v. United States, 39 Fed. Cl. 807 (Fed. Cl. 1998).published 2 cites
    Sammt v. United States, 780 F.2d 31, 32 (Fed.Cir.1985).
  • West v. United States, 35 Fed. Cl. 226 (Fed. Cl. 1996).published
    Defendant cites Sammt v. United States, 780 F.2d 31, 32 (Fed.Cir.1985).
  • Cecil E. Jenson v. Merit Sys. Prot. Bd., 47 F.3d 1183 (Fed. Cir. 1995).unpublished
    (retirement prior to mandatory retirement date was voluntary and deprived court of jurisdiction; "exercise of option to retire is not rendered involuntary by the imminent imposition of a less desirable alternative)
  • Holley v. United States, 32 Fed. Cl. 265 (Fed. Cl. 1994).published
    (rationale re voluntary retirement in civilian pay cases applicable in military pay cases)
  • Colon v. United States, 32 Fed. Cl. 481 (Fed. Cl. 1994).published
    Sammt v. United States, 780 F.2d 31, 32-33 (Fed.Cir.1985); McIntyre v. United States, 30 Fed.Cl. 207, 211-12 (1993); Heaphy v. United States, 23 Cl.Ct. 697 (1991), aff'd, 972 F.2d 1355 (Fed.Cir.1992); Sullivan v. United States, 4 Cl.Ct. 70…
  • Brown v. United States, 30 Fed. Cl. 227 (Fed. Cl. 1993).published 2 cites
    Sammt at 32 (citing Griessenauer v. Dept. of Energy, 754 F.2d 361, 364 (Fed.Cir.1985).) Likewise, the fact that plaintiff in this case was required to choose between submitting a voluntary resignation and facing court-martial does not rend…
  • Duffy v. United States, 835 F. Supp. 1087 (N.D. Ill. 1993).published
    There is a reason for inserting the qualifier “potential” into the last sentence: If Duffy’s resignation were indeed voluntary, this Court would then lack subject matter jurisdiction over his action for reinstatement or backpay (Sammt v. U…
  • Cruz v. Dep't of the Navy, 934 F.2d 1240 (Fed. Cir. 1991).published 2 cites
    Sammt v. United States, 780 F.2d 31, 32 (Fed.Cir.1985); Schultz v. United States Navy, 810 F.2d 1133, 1136 (Fed.Cir.1987); Griessenauer v. Department of Energy, 754 F.2d 361, 364 (Fed.Cir.1985); Covington v. Department of Health and Human…
  • Mai v. United States, 22 Cl. Ct. 664 (Ct. Cl. 1991).published
    Sammt v. United States, 780 F.2d 31, 32 (Fed.Cir.1985).
  • Steffan v. Cheney, 733 F. Supp. 115 (D.D.C. 1989).published
    See Petrick v. United States, 12 Cl.Ct. 700, 704 (1987); Sammt v. United States, 780 F.2d 31, 32 (Fed.Cir.1985); Griessenauer v. Department of Energy, 754 F.2d 361, 364 (Fed.Cir.1985); Covington v. HHS, 750 F.2d 937, 941-42 (Fed.Cir.1984);…
  • Harris v. United States, 102 Fed. Cl. 390 (Fed. Cl. 2011).published
    See Sammt [v. United States], 780 F.2d 31, 32 (Fed.
  • Koretsky v. United States, 57 Fed. Cl. 154 (Fed. Cl. 2003).published 2 cites
    See Bergman v. United States, 28 Fed.Cl. 580, 584 (1993) (citing Sammt v. United States, 780 F.2d 31, 33 (Fed.Cir.1985)).
  • Stephen F. Moyer v. United States, 190 F.3d 1314 (Fed. Cir. 1999).published 4 cites
    See Sammt v. United States, 780 F.2d 31, 32-33 (Fed.Cir.1985) (“If [the claimant’s] retirement was voluntary, no jurisdiction resides in the Court of Federal Claims....
  • Moyer v. United States, 41 Fed. Cl. 324 (Fed. Cl. 1998).published
    See Sammt v. United States, 780 F.2d 31, 32-33 (Fed.Cir.1985); Bruton v. United States, 34 Fed.Cl. 347, 352 (1995).
  • Terrence L. Adkins v. United States, 68 F.3d 1317 (Fed. Cir. 1996).published 2 cites
    See Sammt v. United States, 780 F.2d 31, 32 (Fed.Cir.1985).
  • Gloria A. Vesely, M.D. v. United States, 868 F.2d 1277 (Fed. Cir. 1989).unpublished
  • Anderson v. United States, 22 Cl. Ct. 178 (Ct. Cl. 1990).published
  • Adkins v. United States, 30 Fed. Cl. 158 (Fed. Cl. 1993).published
  • McEntee v. United States, 30 Fed. Cl. 178 (Fed. Cl. 1993).published
At page 33 Determining jurisdiction based on voluntary retirement choice27 citing cases“if his retirement was voluntary, no jurisdiction resides in the claims court ____ to the extent that the civilian pay cases articulate the rationale that a choice of unpleasant alternatives does not make a choice involuntary, that rationale is applicable here.”4 citing courts quote it · 2 cautionary
  • Thomas v. United States, 42 Fed. Cl. 449 (Fed. Cl. 1998).published Cited "but see" · 2 cites
    But see Adkins v. United States, 68 F.3d 1317, 1321 (Fed.Cir.1995); Sammt, 780 F.2d at 33 . .
  • Canonica v. United States, 41 Fed. Cl. 516 (Fed. Cl. 1998).published Cited "but see" · 2 cites
    But see Adkins v. United States, 68 F.3d at 1317, 1321 (Fed.Cir.1995); Sammt v. United States, 780 F.2d 31, 33 (Fed.Cir.1985).
  • Reaves v. United States, No. 16-141 (Fed. Cl. Aug. 10, 2021).published 2 cites
    In Sammt, the Federal Circuit articulated the rule that a voluntary discharge bars this Court from having jurisdiction over a military pay claim. 780 F.2d at 32-33 (“If his retirement was voluntary, no jurisdiction resides in the Claims Co…
  • Peterson v. United States, 104 Fed. Cl. 196 (Fed. Cl. 2012).published 2 cites
    Although plaintiff may have “faced a difficult situation in which his choice was limited to one of two unpleasant alternatives,” Murphy, 69 Fed.Cl. at 605 , plaintiff has not shown that his decision was involuntary, see Sammt, 780 F.2d at…
  • Sommers v. United States, No. 14-690 (Fed. Cl. Aug. 4, 2020).published 2 cites
    (ECF 94 at 15-16 (citing Sammt v. United States, 780 F.2d 31, 33 (Fed. Cir. 1985)).) The plaintiff disagrees, arguing that his retirement was involuntary under the test announced in Carmichael v. United States, 298 F.3d 1367, 1372 (Fed. Ci…
  • Richard P. Watson v. United States, 113 Fed. Cl. 615 (Fed. Cl. 2013).published
    Id. at 588 (citing Sammt v. United States, 780 F.2d 31, 33 (Fed.Cir.1985)).
  • Joslyn v. United States, 90 Fed. Cl. 161 (Fed. Cl. 2009).published 2 cites
    The presumption of a voluntary resignation survives, however, even if the plaintiff is confronted with “a choice of unpleasant alternatives.” Sammt v. United States, 780 F.2d 31, 33 (Fed.Cir.1985).
  • Brookins v. Untied States, 75 Fed. Cl. 133 (Fed. Cl. 2007).published 2 cites
    See Metz v. United States, 466 F.3d 991, 995 (Fed.Cir.), reh’g denied (2006); Carmichael v. United States, 298 F.3d 1367, 1371 (Fed.Cir.2002) (“If a discharge from service is voluntary, then the Court of Federal Claims lacks jurisdiction t…
  • Murphy v. United States, 69 Fed. Cl. 593 (Fed. Cl. 2006).published 4 cites
    See Carmichael v. United States, 298 F.3d at 1371 (“If a discharge from service is voluntary, then the Court of Federal Claims lacks jurisdiction to review the discharge or any back pay damages claims.”); Moyer v. United States, 190 F.3d 1…
  • Sinclair v. United States, 66 Fed. Cl. 487 (Fed. Cl. 2005).published
    (If [plaintiffs] retirement was voluntary, no jurisdiction resides in the Claims Court.)
Show 17 more citing cases
  • Frederick S. McHenry v. United States, 367 F.3d 1370 (Fed. Cir. 2004).published
    Adkins’s retirement was ‘voluntary,’ he retained no statutory entitlement to compensation, and thus no money-mandating provision would support Tucker Act jurisdiction over his claim.”); Sammt v. United States, 780 F.2d 31, 33 (Fed.Cir.1985…
  • Moody v. United States, 58 Fed. Cl. 522 (Fed. Cl. 2003).published
    Regarding the Military Pay Act, it is axiomatic that “[i]f a discharge from service is voluntary, then [this court] lacks jurisdiction to review the discharge or any back pay damage claims.” Carmichael v. United States, 298 F.3d 1367, 1371…
  • David Alan Carmichael v. United States, 298 F.3d 1367 (Fed. Cir. 2002).published
    See id.; Tippett v. United States, 185 F.3d 1250, 1255 (Fed.Cir.1999); Sammt v. United States, 780 F.2d 31, 33 (Fed.Cir.1985). *1372 A presumption of voluntariness generally exists where an employee tenders his resignation or retires; the…
  • Scarseth v. United States, 52 Fed. Cl. 458 (Fed. Cl. 2002).published 2 cites
    Sammt v. United States, 780 F.2d 31, 33 (Fed.Cir.1985).
  • Soeken v. United States, 47 Fed. Cl. 430 (Fed. Cl. 2000).published 2 cites
    Conversely, if an officer’s “retirement was voluntary, he retained no statutory entitlement to compensation, and thus no money-mandating provision would support Tucker Act jurisdiction over his claim.” Adkins, 68 F.3d at 1321 (citing Sammt…
  • Osborn v. United States, 47 Fed. Cl. 224 (Fed. Cl. 2000).published
    Sammt v. United States, 780 F.2d 31, 33 (Fed.Cir.1985).
  • Gallucci v. United States, 41 Fed. Cl. 631 (Fed. Cl. 1998).published
    Sammt v. United States, 780 F.2d 31, 33 (Fed.Cir.1985).
  • Hoskins v. United States, 40 Fed. Cl. 259 (Fed. Cl. 1998).published
    (stating that the court is without jurisdiction under 37 U.S.C. § 204 when the service member voluntarily resigned)
  • Shrader v. United States, 38 Fed. Cl. 788 (Fed. Cl. 1997).published
    Instead, plaintiff offers only repeated assertions of his difficult choices and his self-perceived need to resign because of the possibility of losing his flying status in the face of limited opportunities in the military for pilots. 3 The…
  • Bruton v. United States, 34 Fed. Cl. 347 (Fed. Cl. 1995).published
    Sammt v. United States, 780 F.2d 31, 33 (Fed.Cir.1985).
  • Clifton v. United States, 31 Fed. Cl. 593 (Fed. Cl. 1994).published 2 cites
    Sammt v. United States, 780 F.2d 31, 33 (Fed.Cir.1985).
  • Brown v. United States, 30 Fed. Cl. 227 (Fed. Cl. 1993).published 2 cites
    Sammt at 32 (citing Griessenauer v. Dept. of Energy, 754 F.2d 361, 364 (Fed.Cir.1985).) Likewise, the fact that plaintiff in this case was required to choose between submitting a voluntary resignation and facing court-martial does not rend…
  • Bergman v. United States, 28 Fed. Cl. 580 (Fed. Cl. 1993).published
    Sammt v. United States, 780 F.2d 31, 33 (Fed.Cir.1985).
  • Bell v. United States, 23 Cl. Ct. 73 (Ct. Cl. 1991).published
    In Sammt v. United States, 780 F.2d 31, 33 (Fed.Cir.1985), a military pay case, the Federal Circuit indicated that the Claims Court lacks jurisdiction over claims involving an employee’s voluntary resignation.
  • Koretsky v. United States, 57 Fed. Cl. 154 (Fed. Cl. 2003).published 2 cites
    See Bergman v. United States, 28 Fed.Cl. 580, 584 (1993) (citing Sammt v. United States, 780 F.2d 31, 33 (Fed.Cir.1985)).
  • Rigsbee v. United States, 46 Fed. Cl. 120 (Fed. Cl. 2000).published
    (as construed in Bell v. United States, 23 Cl.Ct. 73, 76 (1991))
  • Nickerson v. United States, 35 Fed. Cl. 581 (Fed. Cl. 1996).published
At page 31 Determining subject matter jurisdiction over voluntary retirement claims3 citing casesstating in a military pay case, “we conclude as we have in civilian pay cases, that the exercise of an option to retire is not rendered involuntary by the imminent imposition of a less desirable alternative2 citing courts put it this way
  • Richardson v. United States, No. 20-86, 2022 WL 1744501 (Fed. Cl. May 31, 2022).unpublished
    In that case, as in the instant case, the plaintiff was notified that his tenure as an active-duty officer would end on a certain date unless he requested retirement at an earlier date. 780 F.2d at 31-32.
  • Brookins v. Untied States, 75 Fed. Cl. 133 (Fed. Cl. 2007).published 2 cites
    See Metz v. United States, 466 F.3d 991, 995 (Fed.Cir.), reh’g denied (2006); Carmichael v. United States, 298 F.3d 1367, 1371 (Fed.Cir.2002) (“If a discharge from service is voluntary, then the Court of Federal Claims lacks jurisdiction t…
  • Murphy v. United States, 69 Fed. Cl. 593 (Fed. Cl. 2006).published 4 cites
    See Carmichael v. United States, 298 F.3d at 1371 (“If a discharge from service is voluntary, then the Court of Federal Claims lacks jurisdiction to review the discharge or any back pay damages claims.”); Moyer v. United States, 190 F.3d 1…
Other citing cases2 with no pin cite or quoted language on record
Retrieving the full opinion text from the archive…
Major Carl J. SAMMT, R.A., Appellant/Cross-Appellee,
v.
the UNITED STATES, Appellee/Cross-Appellant
19-1950.
Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit.
Dec 17, 1985.
Published opinion
780 F.2d 31
1985 U.S. App. LEXIS 15530
Keith A. Rosenberg, LaRoe, Winn & Moerman, Washington, D.C., for appellant. With him on brief was Lauren V. Kessler., John S. Groat, Commercial Litigation Branch, Dept. of Justice, Washington, D.C., for appellee. With him on brief were Richard K. Willard, Acting Asst. Atty. Gen., David M. Cohen, Director, Thomas W. Petersen, Asst. Director and R. Anthony McCann, Lieutenant Colonel, Joyce E. Peters and Major Wayne H. Price, Office of the Judge Advocate Gen., Dept. of the Army, Washington, D.C., of counsel.
Markey, Miller, Nies.
Cited by 65 opinions  |  Published
NIES, Circuit Judge.

The United States Claims Court, 7 Cl.Ct. 274 (1985), held that it had subject matter jurisdiction over the claim of Major Carl J. Sammt, R.A., for back pay and correction of records, but further held that the claims were without merit. Judgment was entered for the government. Both parties appeal. We hold that because Major Sammt retired voluntarily, the Claims Court was without subject matter jurisdiction. The case is, therefore, remanded for the court to dismiss Major Sammt’s complaint with prejudice.

Background

In 1975 and 1976, Major Sammt was considered for promotion to lieutenant colonel by a Regular Army promotion selection board but was not selected. Because he had been twice passed over, the Department of the Army advised Major Sammt[*32] (on June 10, 1977) that in accordance with regulations (AR635-100, ¶ 4-27a(l)) he would be placed on the retired list effective December 1, 1977, unless he requested voluntary retirement.

On July 11, 1977, Major Sammt requested that he “be relieved from active duty and assignment on 31 October 1977, and placed on the retired list on 1 November 1977, or as soon thereafter as practicable.” This request was granted and plaintiff was retired on October 31, 1977.

On June 16, 1983, Major Sammt brought suit in the United States Claims Court. He contended that his non-selection to lieutenant colonel was based, in part, on erroneous information in his military records, and he requested a judgment awarding him active duty pay and allowance as a major from October 31, 1977 to date, as well as an order directing the Secretary of the Army to correct his records. The government claimed that Major Sammt retired voluntarily and that the voluntariness of the retirement negates the jurisdiction of the Claims Court.

The Claims Court found that Major Sammt requested voluntary retirement but concluded that, because his retirement was mandated by statute, it must be deemed involuntary, which gave the court jurisdiction. The court reasoned:

The applicable statute, 10 U.S.C. § 3303(d) (1976), mandated that an officer who is twice not selected for promotion to the next highest grade must retire if eligible for retirement or be honorably discharged. 10 U.S.C. § 3913 (1976) declared that an officer with 20 years of service shall be retired if not promoted under section 3303(c). Plaintiff had over 23 years of experience. Therefore, section 3303(d)(1) mandated that plaintiff be retired.
The fact that an Army Regulation, Paragraph 4-10, AR 635-100 gave plaintiff the option to request voluntary retirement did not and could not alter the fact that plaintiffs retirement pursuant to sections 3303(d) and 3913 was mandatory. To the extent that the Army Regulation may have been inconsistent with sections 3303(d) and 3913, it would have to be ruled invalid. See Dixon v. United States, 381 U.S. 68, 74 [85 S.Ct. 1301, 1305, 14 L.Ed.2d 223] (1965); Welsh v. United States, 2 Cl.Ct. 417, 420 (1983); First Federal Savings and Loan Assoc. of Bristol v. United States, 228 Ct.Cl. 569, 575, 660 F.2d 767, 770 (1981); Hampton Roads Industrial Electronics Corp. v. United States, 147 Ct.Cl. 635, 641, 178 F.Supp. 474, 477 (1959). Therefore, despite its characterization, plaintiff’s retirement under the circumstances must be deemed involuntary in that it was mandated by 10 U.S.C. § 3303(d) (1976). Given this conclusion, the court does have jurisdiction over this case. See Rogers v. United States, 59 Ct.Cl. 464 (1924), aff’d, 270 U.S. 154 [42 S.Ct. 275, 70 L.Ed. 520] (1926). [Footnotes omitted.]

Analysis

As a matter of law, we hold that the Claims Court lacked jurisdiction over this case. The Claims Court was correct that no precedent of this court is directly on point. However, we conclude, as we have in civilian pay cases, that the exercise of an option to retire is not rendered involuntary by the imminent imposition of a less desirable alternative. Griessenauer v. Department of Energy, 754 F.2d 361, 364 (Fed.Cir.1985); Covington v. Department of Health and Human Services, 750 F.2d 937, 942 (Fed.Cir.1984) (dicta); Taylor v. United States, 591 F.2d 688, 692 (Ct.Cl. 1979); Christie v. United States, 518 F.2d 584, 587-88 (Ct.Cl.1975).

Sammt argues that the analogy to civilian pay cases is unwarranted, pointing to the difference in the statutory scheme for civilians under which civilians must first pursue administrative remedies, whereas Sammt’s pursuit of correction of his non-selection through the Army’s Board for Correction of Military Records was permissive, citing Cason v. United States, 471 F.2d 1225, 1229-30 (Ct.C1.1973).

[*33] Sammt’s argument misses the point. If his retirement was voluntary, no jurisdiction resides in the Claims Court. It is not a matter of exhaustion of administrative remedies. To the extent that the civilian pay cases articulate the rationale that a choice of unpleasant alternatives does not make a choice involuntary, that rationale is applicable here. Sammt’s service records indicate that he retired pursuant to 10 U.S.C. § 3911 (1976), relating to voluntary retirement, not 10 U.S.C. §§ 3303(d), 3913 (1976) (repealed 1980), relating to involuntary retirement. Further, the actual date of Sammt’s retirement was October 31, 1977, not the mandatory date of December 1, 1977. While Sammt asserts that the actual date, plus his terminal leave, is the same as the mandatory date, we consider that equation immaterial. There is no fact dispute on the question of whether Sammt chose to voluntarily retire. His records reflect that decision. For whatever reason he chose that alternative rather than await mandatory (involuntary) retirement, he made that choice, and we need not speculate on the reason. That choice deprives the Claims Court of jurisdiction over his claims. *

Conclusion

For the foregoing reasons, the case is remanded to the Claims Court to dismiss for lack of jurisdiction.

REMANDED.

*

We express no opinion on the effect of the change in the law made by the Defense Officer Personnel Management Act, Pub.L. 96-513, § 105, 94 Stat. 2835, 2862 (codified as amended at 10 U.S.C. § 632(b) (1982)). However, we find nothing in the legislative history to indicate that those changes spell out what Congress had intended under the old law.