People v. Nelson, 506 N.E.2d 907 (N.Y. 1987). · Go Syfert
People v. Nelson, 506 N.E.2d 907 (N.Y. 1987). Cases Citing This Book View Copy Cite
166 citation events (127 in the last 25 years) across 11 distinct courts.
Treatment trajectory · 1987 → 2026 · click a year to view as-of
1987 2006 2026
Cited for
69 N.Y.2d at 307 Analyzing vagueness challenge to criminal statute33 citing cases“explicit standards for those who apply them so as to avoid resolution on an ad hoc and subjective basis, with the attendant dangers of arbitrary and discriminatory application”4 citing courts quote it · 32 listed here
  • Police Benevolent Ass'n of the City of New York v. City of New York, 224 N.E.3d 522 (N.Y. 2023).published
    First, the Court must determine “whether the statute in question is ‘sufficiently definite’ ‘to give a person of ordinary intelligence fair notice that [their] contemplated conduct is forbidden’” (Stuart, 100 NY2d at 420 , quoting People v…
  • People v. Allen, 2023 NY Slip Op 00496 (N.Y. App. Div. 1st Dep't 2023).published 2 cites
    The first part essentially restates the classical notice doctrine: To ensure that no person is punished for conduct not reasonably understood to be prohibited, the court must determine whether the statute in question is "sufficiently defin…
  • The Matter of Indep. Ins. Agents & Brokers of New York v. New York State Dep't of Fin. Servs., 39 N.Y.3d 56 (N.Y. 2022).published 2 cites
    Courts use a two-part test to determine whether a statute or regulation is unconstitutionally vague (see Stephens; 28 NY3d at 312-313 ; People v Stuart, 100 NY2d 412, 420 [2003]; Ulster Home Care, 96 NY2d at 509 [regulation]; People v Nels…
  • People v. Cherry (Frankie), No. 2017 NYSlipOp 27284 (N.Y. App. Term. Aug. 25, 2017).published 4 cites
    A court "will not consider the possibility that the statute may be vague as [*3] applied in other hypothetical situations" ( People v Nelson , 69 NY2d 302, 308 [1987]).
  • People v. Cherry, 36 N.Y.3d 977 (N.Y. App. Term. 2017).published 2 cites
    A court will not “consider the possibility that the statute may be vague as applied in other hypothetical situations” (Pe ople v Nelson, 69 NY2d 302, 308 [1987]).
  • People v. Morales, 55 Misc. 3d 59 (N.Y. App. Term. 2017).published
    The statute is “sufficiently definite to give a person of ordinary intelligence fair notice that his contemplated conduct is forbidden by the statute,” and also provides “explicit standards for those who apply them so as to avoid resolutio…
  • People v. Morales (Sigfredo), No. 2017 NYSlipOp 27101 (N.Y. App. Term. Mar. 31, 2017).published 2 cites
    The statute is "sufficiently definite to give a person of ordinary intelligence fair notice that his contemplated conduct is forbidden by the statute," and also provides "explicit standards for those who apply them so as to avoid resolutio…
  • The People v. Harvert Stephens, Also Known as Havert Stephens, 66 N.E.3d 1070 (N.Y. 2016).published
    With these general principles in mind, we analyze this vagueness challenge using a two-part test (Stuart, 100 NY2d at 420 ; People v Nelson, 69 NY2d 302, 307 [1987]; People v Smith, 44 NY2d 613 , 618 [1978]).
  • People v. Salamon, 54 Misc. 3d 960 (N.Y. City Crim. Ct. 2016).published
    Firstly, the court must determine whether the statute “is sufficiently definite to give a person of ordinary intelligence fair notice that his contemplated conduct is forbidden by statute” (Stuart at 420 [emphasis added], citing People v N…
  • People v. Fitzsimmons (Carol), No. 2016 NYSlipOp 50549(U) (N.Y. App. Term. Apr. 6, 2016).published
    The existence of locks on interior doors in dwellings does not, self-evidently, represent a condition "detrimental to safety or health" (Code § 82-3 [F]), and a person of ordinary intelligence would not necessarily understand therefrom "th…
Show 22 more citing cases
  • People v. Gabriel, 37 Misc. 3d 621 (2012).published
    A court must determine (1) whether the law is “sufficiently definite ‘to give a person of ordinary intelligence fair notice that his contemplated conduct is forbidden by the statute’ ” (People v Stuart, 100 NY2d at 420 , quoting People v N…
  • State v. Spencer D., 96 A.D.3d 768 (N.Y. App. Div. 2d Dep't 2012).published 2 cites
    The first essentially restates the classical notice doctrine: To ensure that no person is punished for conduct not reasonably understood to be prohibited, the court must determine whether the statute in question is sufficiently definite to…
  • People v. Rodriguez, 88 A.D.3d 600 (N.Y. App. Div. 1st Dep't 2011).published
    It was “sufficiently definite to give a person of ordinary intelligence fair notice that his contemplated conduct is forbidden by the statute,” and also provided “explicit standards for those who apply them so as to avoid resolution on an…
  • CRP Sanitation, Inc. v. Solid Waste Comm'n, 86 A.D.3d 608 (N.Y. App. Div. 2d Dep't 2011).published
    The first essentially restates the classical notice doctrine: To ensure that no person is punished for conduct not reasonably understood to be prohibited, the court must determine whether the statute in question is sufficiently definite to…
  • People v. Smith, 77 A.D.3d 980 (N.Y. App. Div. 2d Dep't 2010).published
    The defendant’s contention that Correction Law § 168-f (3) is unconstitutional is unpreserved for appellate review (see CPL 470.05 [2]; People v Mojica, 62 AD3d 100, 108 [2009]) and, in any event, without merit (see generally People v Nels…
  • People v. Conti, 27 Misc. 3d 453 (Dunkirk City Ct. 2010).published
    First, the court must determine whether the statute is “ ‘sufficiently definite “to give a person of ordinary intelligence fair notice that his contemplated conduct is forbidden by the statute” ’ ” (Stuart, 100 NY2d at 420 , quoting People…
  • People v. Mojica, 62 A.D.3d 100 (N.Y. App. Div. 2d Dep't 2009).published 3 cites
    We further note that, even if the defendant is correct that the statute would deny due process to hypothetical defendants who may have been DWI in violation of Vehicle and Traffic Law § 1192 but did not cause the accident, we do not reach…
  • 164th Bronx Parking, LLC v. City of New York, 20 Misc. 3d 796 (N.Y. Sup. Ct. 2008).published
    (People v Stuart, 100 NY2d at 420 ; People v Nelson, 69 NY2d 302, 307 [1987]; see Broadrick v Oklahoma, 413 US at 608 ; County of Nassau v Canavan, 1 NY3d 134, 138 [2003]; Matter of Travis S., 96 NY2d 818 , 820 [2001]; Ulster Home Care v V…
  • People v. Fox, 17 Misc. 3d 281 (N.Y. Sup. Ct. 2007).published 3 cites
    (See People v Stuart, 100 NY2d at 426-427 [rejecting claim that antistalking statute was unconstitutionally vague as applied because it did not require the People to prove that an offender “intend(ed) a specific result, such as fear or har…
  • People v. Adinolfi, 14 Misc. 3d 348 (2006).published
    Thus, the statute delineates specific conduct easily understood and avoided by the innocent minded (see People v Nelson, 69 NY2d 302, 307 [1987]).
  • People v. Charland, 30 A.D.3d 838 (N.Y. App. Div. 3d Dep't 2006).published
    Inasmuch as defendant concedes that the order further required him to surrender all firearms and we view this provision as prohibiting his possession of any firearm, the order was “sufficiently definite £ “to give a person of ordinary inte…
  • People v. Garson, 848 N.E.2d 1264 (N.Y. 2006).published 2 cites
    First, a court must determine “whether the statute in question is ‘sufficiently definite “to give a person of ordinary intelligence fair notice that his contemplated conduct is forbidden by the statute” ’ ” (see 100 NY2d 412, 420 [2003], s…
  • People v. Stuart, 797 N.E.2d 28 (N.Y. 2003).published 5 cites
    By 1932, we equated vagueness with unconstitutionality (see People v Grogan, 260 NY 138, 145-149 [1932]) and in 1973 struck down a vague loitering statute on due process grounds (see People v Berck, 32 NY2d 567 [1973]). 5 We did so again n…
  • People v. Taylor, 190 Misc. 2d 124 (N.Y. Sup. Ct. 2002).published
    First, it must be determined whether the statute in question is ‘sufficiently definite “to give a person of ordinary intelligence fair notice that his contemplated conduct is forbidden by the statute” ’ * * * Second, a statute ‘ “must prov…
  • People v. Diaz, 188 Misc. 2d 341 (N.Y. Sup. Ct. 2001).published 2 cites
    First, the statute must provide sufficient notice of what conduct is prohibited; second, the statute must not be written in such a manner as to permit or encourage arbitrary and discriminatory enforcement.” (Id.) Finally, in general, a vag…
  • Barbulean v. City of Newburgh, 168 Misc. 2d 728 (N.Y. Sup. Ct. 1995).published
    (Grayned v City of Rockford, 408 US 104, 109 [1972]; People v Nelson, 69 NY2d 302, 307 [1987].) In his vagueness attack, plaintiff contends that the five factors that must be established by a special use permit applicant are themselves imp…
  • People v. Beecher, 153 Misc. 2d 247 (1992).published
    (People v Nelson, 69 NY2d 302, 307 [1987].) Second, the statute must provide explicit standards to be applied, and should not be dependent upon the subjective conclusions of a complainant or an arresting officer as to what would constitute…
  • People v. Portnoy, 140 Misc. 2d 945 (N.Y. City Crim. Ct. 1988).published
    First, the challenged statute must afford a " ' "person of ordinary intelligence fair notice that [the] contemplated conduct is forbidden” ’ ”; second, the statute must provide " ' "explicit standards” ’ ” to avoid arbitrary or discriminat…
  • Town of Islip v. Caviglia, 141 A.D.2d 148 (N.Y. App. Div. 2d Dep't 1988).published
    We are further guided by the rule that if the actions of a party are clearly within the ambit of the statute, courts will not strain to imagine hypothetical situations where the application of a statute or ordinance would be unclear (Young…
  • People v. McGrath, 135 A.D.2d 60 (N.Y. App. Div. 2d Dep't 1988).published
    The provision of the statute mandating judicial intervention before the performance of a chemical test effectively prevents the arbitrary or discriminatory application of the statute (see, People v Nelson, supra, at 307-308).
  • In re Turner v. Mun. Code Violations Bureau, 122 A.D.3d 1376 (N.Y. App. Div. 4th Dep't 2014).published 2 cites
    “In addressing vagueness challenges, courts have developed a two-part test .... [F]irst[,] . . . the court must determine whether the statute in question is sufficiently definite to give a person of ordinary intelligence fair notice that h…
  • Turner, Thomas v. Mun. Code Violations Bureau of, No. CA 14-00572 (N.Y. App. Div. 4th Dep't Nov. 21, 2014).published
    “In addressing vagueness challenges, courts have developed a two-part test . . . [F]irst[,] . . . the court must determine whether the statute in question is sufficiently definite to give a person of ordinary intelligence fair notice that…
69 N.Y.2d at 308 Addressing vagueness challenges to statutory application14 citing cases“a vagueness challenge must be addressed to the facts before the court”the opinion's own words at *308, quoted by 2 later opinions · 13 listed here
  • Matter of 101 Park Ave. Assoc. II, LLC v. City of New York, 2021 NY Slip Op 06745 (N.Y. App. Div. 1st Dep't 2021).published 2 cites
    Here, petitioner's display was "plainly within the ambit of the statute" ( People v Nelson , 69 NY2d 302, 308 [1987]).
  • Matter of Gaul v. Sober, 186 A.D.3d 1821 (N.Y. App. Div. 3d Dep't 2020).published
    Except in certain rare circumstances not presented here, vagueness challenges "must be addressed to the facts before the court," rather than on hypothetical circumstances unrelated to those actually presented ( People v Nelson , 69 NY2d 30…
  • People v. Cherry (Frankie), No. 2017 NYSlipOp 27284 (N.Y. App. Term. Aug. 25, 2017).published 4 cites
    A court "will not consider the possibility that the statute may be vague as [*3] applied in other hypothetical situations" ( People v Nelson , 69 NY2d 302, 308 [1987]).
  • People v. Cherry, 36 N.Y.3d 977 (N.Y. App. Term. 2017).published 2 cites
    A court will not “consider the possibility that the statute may be vague as applied in other hypothetical situations” (Pe ople v Nelson, 69 NY2d 302, 308 [1987]).
  • People v. Nivar, 30 Misc. 3d 952 (N.Y. Sup. Ct. 2011).published
    “A person to whom a statute properly applies can’t [sic] obtain relief based on arguments that a differently situated person might present.” (United States v Skoien, 614 F3d 638, 645 [2010], petition for cert filed Oct. 12, 2010 [citations…
  • People ex rel. Clark v. Walsh, 73 A.D.3d 1409 (N.Y. App. Div. 3d Dep't 2010).published
    Moreover, “except in rare circumstances not relevant here, a vagueness challenge must be addressed to the facts before the court” (People v Nelson, 69 NY2d 302, 308 [1987]).
  • People v. Mojica, 62 A.D.3d 100 (N.Y. App. Div. 2d Dep't 2009).published 3 cites
    We further note that, even if the defendant is correct that the statute would deny due process to hypothetical defendants who may have been DWI in violation of Vehicle and Traffic Law § 1192 but did not cause the accident, we do not reach…
  • People v. Taylor, 878 N.E.2d 969 (N.Y. 2007).published 2 cites
    When a person’s conduct falls within the proscriptions of a regulation, £a vagueness challenge must be addressed to the facts before the court’ ” (citations omitted)]; People v Nelson, 69 NY2d 302, 308 [1987] [“It has often been said, howe…
  • People v. Peak Carting, Inc., 11 Misc. 3d 4 (N.Y. App. Term. 2005).published
    When a court, as in the case at bar, is faced with both facial and as applied arguments, it must first decide whether the statute is impermissibly vague as applied to the defendant (People v Nelson, 69 NY2d 302, 308 [1987]).
  • People v. Diaz, 188 Misc. 2d 341 (N.Y. Sup. Ct. 2001).published 2 cites
    First, the statute must provide sufficient notice of what conduct is prohibited; second, the statute must not be written in such a manner as to permit or encourage arbitrary and discriminatory enforcement.” (Id.) Finally, in general, a vag…
Show 3 more citing cases
  • People v. Iftikhar, 185 Misc. 2d 565 (N.Y. City Crim. Ct. 2000).published
    However, even assuming the literal accuracy of that description, this is not a situation in which this defendant’s conduct was so “plainly within the ambit of the statute,” such that the court is “strain [ing] to imagine marginal situation…
  • In re Travis S., 180 Misc. 2d 234 (N.Y.C. Fam. Ct. 1999).published
    The Practice Commentary to this statute acknowledges this omission from the bill that was enacted by the Legislature, and suggests that such an addition “would be a meaningful restriction on the scope of this statute”. 3 Although the lack…
  • Town of Islip v. Caviglia, 141 A.D.2d 148 (N.Y. App. Div. 2d Dep't 1988).published
    We are further guided by the rule that if the actions of a party are clearly within the ambit of the statute, courts will not strain to imagine hypothetical situations where the application of a statute or ordinance would be unclear (Young…
69 N.Y.2d at 306 OPINION OF THE COURT Per Curiam. In People v Nelson et al., each of the defendants was charged with jostling (Penal Law § 165.25)* in Criminal Court…2 citing casesopening of page *306 (no citing court says what it cites this page for)
  • People v. Garcia, 3 Misc. 3d 699 (N.Y. Sup. Ct. 2004).published
    (Grayned v City of Rockford, 408 US 104, 108-109 [1972]; People v Nelson, 69 NY2d 302, 306 [1987].) Accordingly, a statute is unconstitutionally vague if a potential offender or a police officer cannot determine the conduct proscribed by t…
  • People v. Garcia, 2004 NY Slip Op 24077 (N.Y. Sup. Ct., New York Cty. 2004).published
    Co. , 269 US 385, 391 [1926]; International Harvester Co. v Kentucky , 234 US 216, 221 [1914]; People v Grogan , 260 NY 138, 145-146 [1932].) A statute must also be written in a manner which precludes arbitrary and discriminatory enforceme…
Other citing cases3 with no pin cite or quoted language on record
Retrieving the full opinion text from the archive…
The People of the State of New York
v.
Willie Nelson, Terry Jones, Carol Rogers, Barbara Chambers and Larry Bobb, Appellants The People of the State of New York v. Michael Tyler, Appellant The People of the State of New York v. Freddy Robinson
New York Court of Appeals.
Mar 24, 1987.
Published opinion
506 N.E.2d 907
1987 N.Y. LEXIS 15802
POINTS OF COUNSEL, Michele Maxian and Caesar D. Cirigliano for appellants in the first above-entitled action., Steven C. Krane for appellant in the second above-entitled action., Jane K. Falcon and Philip L. Weinstein for appellant in the third above-entitled action., Robert M. Morgenthau, District Attorney (Mark Dwyer and John G. Martin of counsel), for respondent in the first above-entitled action., Robert M. Morgenthau, District Attorney (John G. Martin and Mark Dwyer of counsel), for respondent in the second above-entitled action., John J. Santucci, District Attorney (Gary Seidel and Jeanette Lifschitz of counsel), for respondent in the third above-entitled action.
Cited by 83 opinions  |  Published

[*306] OPINION OF THE COURT

Per Curiam.

In People v Nelson et al., each of the defendants was charged with jostling (Penal Law § 165.25)* in Criminal Court informations. Police officers allegedly observed each of them patting down victims’ pockets, reaching to purposely touch handbags, putting their hands into other people’s pockets or crowding victims or acting as lookouts while their companions took these actions. On defendants’ motions, Criminal Court dismissed the informations, holding the jostling statute void for vagueness. The Appellate Term reversed, denied defendants’ motions to dismiss and reinstated the informations.

Defendant Tyler was convicted of jostling after a jury trial. The evidence presented to the jury indicated that defendant had placed his hands inside two of the pockets of a man who was lying drunk and asleep on a subway platform. The Appellate Term affirmed the conviction, citing People v Nelson.

[*307] An officer allegedly observed defendant Robinson patting down two pockets of a sleeping subway passenger, placing his hands inside the man’s pants pocket and attempting to remove money. Criminal Court dismissed the misdemeanor complaint on the ground that the People were required to submit a corroborating affidavit by the victim. The Appellate Term reversed, reinstated the accusatory instrument and remanded the matter for further proceedings.

On appeal, defendants argue primarily that the jostling statute (Penal Law § 165.25) is void for vagueness. In People v Tyler and People v Robinson this issue is not preserved and, thus, our review of the issue is limited to People v Nelson et al.

A vagueness challenge involves a two-part analysis. First, it must be determined whether the statute in question is "sufficiently definite 'to give a person of ordinary intelligence fair notice that his contemplated conduct is forbidden by the statute’ ” (People v Smith, 44 NY2d 613, 618, quoting United States v Harriss, 347 US 612, 617). Citizens must be afforded fair warning of what is prohibited by law so that they may act accordingly (Grayned v City of Rockford, 408 US 104, 108-109). Second, a statute " 'must provide explicit standards for those who apply them’ so as to avoid 'resolution on an ad hoc and subjective basis, with the attendant dangers of arbitrary and discriminatory application’ ” (People v Smith, supra, at 618, quoting Grayned v City of Rockford, supra, at 108-109). The Constitution abhors a law placing unfettered discretion in the hands of police, prosecutors and juries and allowing punishment of the poor or unpopular on a whim (Kolender v Lawson, 461 US 352, 357-358; Papachristou v City of Jacksonville, 405 US 156). Defendants allege that Penal Law § 165.25 runs afoul of both of these concerns. We disagree.

Unlike statutes which have been declared void for vagueness because they provide insufficient warning to the person of ordinary intelligence (see, e.g., Papachristou v City of Jacksonville, supra), Penal Law § 165.25 clearly delineates specific conduct easily avoided by the innocent-minded. It should present no difficulty for a citizen to comprehend that he must refrain from acting with the intent to bring his hand into the proximity of a stranger’s pocket or handbag unnecessarily. Moreover, contrary to defendants’ claim, the statute is no more difficult to interpret and obey because it does not require larcenous intent. Penal Law § 165.25 prohibits a certain inten[*308] tional course of conduct regardless of the wrongdoer’s underlying purpose or motive.

Defendants concern themselves with possible applications of the word "unnecessarily” which would be outside the statute’s intended realm, such as tugging on another’s handbag to gain that person’s attention. It has often been said, however, that, except in rare circumstances not relevant here, a vagueness challenge must be addressed to the facts before the court (United States v Mazurie, 419 US 544, 550; United States v Raines, 362 US 17, 20-22; see, Broadrick v Oklahoma, 413 US 601, 610-611). Thus, if the actions of the defendants are plainly within the ambit of the statute, the court will not strain to imagine marginal situations in which the application of the statute is not so clear (Young v American Mini Theatres, 427 US 50, 58-59, reh denied 429 US 873; United States v Powell, 423 US 87, 93). Here, defendants do not, nor could they, argue that their own acts should be interpreted as necessary. Therefore, any element of vagueness in this statute has had no effect on these defendants and they have no standing to complain of it (Young v American Mini Theatres, supra, at 59). This court cannot consider the possibility that the statute may be vague as applied in other hypothetical situations.

Nor does Penal Law § 165.25 encourage arbitrary or discriminatory application. The law, easily followed by most citizens of this State, provides objective criteria which must be observed by a police officer prior to arrest. It is not dependent upon the subjective conclusions of a complainant or an arresting officer as to what is annoying (Coates v City of Cincinnati, 402 US 611; People v New York Trap Rock Corp., 57 NY2d 371) or suspicious (People v Berck, 32 NY2d 567, cert denied 414 US 1093). This is not a statute which casts such a large net that it allows officials to round up those they have concluded to be undesirable (see, e.g., Papachristou v City of Jacksonville, supra). On the contrary, a person may be arrested pursuant to Penal Law § 165.25 if the police have probable cause to believe, based upon observable conduct, that defendant unnecessarily and intentionally placed his hand in the proximity of another’s pocket or handbag.

We have examined the remaining contentions of the defen[*309] dants in each case and have found those which are preserved to be without merit.

The orders of the Appellate Term should be affirmed.

Chief Judge Wachtler and Judges Simons, Titone, Hancock, Jr., and Bellacosa concur in Per Curiam opinion; Judges Kaye and Alexander taking no part.

In each case: Orders affirmed.

Penal Law § 165.25 provides:

"A person is guilty of jostling when, in a public place, he intentionally and unnecessarily:

"1. Places his hand in the proximity of a person’s pocket or handbag; or

"2. Jostles or crowds another person at a time when a third person’s hand is in the proximity of such person’s pocket or handbag.”