matter of constitutional principle (California) · Go Syfert
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matter of constitutional principle in California

15 California opinions name it 2 courts 1968–2005 0 in the last five years

The cases below were cited by California courts in a sentence that names this issue. Sides come from how each citing opinion treated the case (Syfertize flag on that citation), so a case can appear on both: that is where the law is contested. A red or yellow chip is the case's own overall treatment.

Followed or applied (14)

CaseFollowedCited
Maryland v. Craiggreen
scotus · 1990 · cited in 4 California opinions naming this issue, 1992–2005
2 sentences

1992As a matter of constitutional principle, the United States Supreme Court has held that a state's compelling interest in protecting child victims of sex crimes from further trauma may in some instances outweigh the right to confrontation. ( Maryland v. Craig (1990) 497 U.S. 836, 852 [ 111 L.Ed.2d 666, 683 , 110 S.Ct. 3157 ] [upholding procedure of closed-circuit television testimony by child in criminal case].) Likewise, the California courts have approved the use of statutory procedures in dependency cases which deprived parents accused of molestation of the opportunity to confront and cross-e

1992As a matter of constitutional principle, the United States Supreme Court has held that a state's compelling interest in protecting child victims of sex crimes from further trauma may in some instances outweigh the right to confrontation. ( Maryland v. Craig (1990) 497 U.S. 836, 852 [ 111 L.Ed.2d 666, 683 , 110 S.Ct. 3157 ] [upholding procedure of closed-circuit television testimony by child in criminal case].) Likewise, the California courts have approved the use of statutory procedures in dependency cases which deprived parents accused of molestation of the opportunity to confront and cross-e

44
Simmons v. United Statesgreen
scotus · 1968 · cited in 3 California opinions naming this issue, 1968–1970
2 sentences

1968(Stovall v. Denno, 388 U.S. 293, 302 [ 18 L.Ed.2d 1199, 1206 , 87 S.Ct. 1967 ]; People v. Feggans, 67 Cal.2d 444 , 448 *46 [ 62 Cal.Rptr. 419 , 432 P.2d 21 ].)” In Simmons v. United States (1968) 390 U.S. 377, 384 [ 19 L.Ed.2d 1247, 1253 , 88 S.Ct. 967 ], in discussing the use of photographs in aid of identification, the court states the rule applicable: “We are unwilling to prohibit its employment, either in the exercise of our supervisory power or, still less, as a matter of constitutional requirement.

1968(Stovall v. Denno, 388 U.S. 293, 302 [ 18 L.Ed.2d 1199, 1206 , 87 S.Ct. 1967 ]; People v. Feggans, 67 Cal.2d 444 , 448 *46 [ 62 Cal.Rptr. 419 , 432 P.2d 21 ].)” In Simmons v. United States (1968) 390 U.S. 377, 384 [ 19 L.Ed.2d 1247, 1253 , 88 S.Ct. 967 ], in discussing the use of photographs in aid of identification, the court states the rule applicable: “We are unwilling to prohibit its employment, either in the exercise of our supervisory power or, still less, as a matter of constitutional requirement.

23
San Bernardino County Department of Public Social Services v. Ebrahim A.green
calctapp · 1992 · cited in 2 California opinions naming this issue, 1993–1993
2 sentences

1993Therefore, the court was entitled to consider those statements under the hearsay exception recognized in In re Malinda S. Further, Kailee’s remarks to her aunt and pediatrician about her vaginal soreness were admissible under the physical sensation exception to the hearsay rule to establish her “present physical condition and her view of its cause.” (In re Emilye A. (1992) 9 Cal.App.4th 1695, 1713 [ 12 Cal.Rptr.2d 294 ].) In addition, the independent observations of Kailee’s mother, aunt and grandmothers that she slept in the same room with appellant, that her behavior changed after visiting a

1993Therefore, the court was entitled to consider those statements under the hearsay exception recognized in In re Malinda S. Further, Kailee’s remarks to her aunt and pediatrician about her vaginal soreness were admissible under the physical sensation exception to the hearsay rule to establish her “present physical condition and her view of its cause.” (In re Emilye A. (1992) 9 Cal.App.4th 1695, 1713 [ 12 Cal.Rptr.2d 294 ].) In addition, the independent observations of Kailee’s mother, aunt and grandmothers that she slept in the same room with appellant, that her behavior changed after visiting a

22
In Re Malinda S.red
cal · 1990 · cited in 3 California opinions naming this issue, 1992–2005
2 sentences

2005In these proceedings, ‘the paramount concern is the child’s welfare.’ {In re Malinda S., supra, 51 Cal.3d at p. 384 , italics added.) We further note that ‘[a]s a matter of constitutional principle, the United States Supreme Court has held that a state’s compelling interest in protecting child victims of sex crimes from further trauma may in some instances outweigh the right of confrontation.

1993Preliminarily, we note that “[dependency proceedings are civil in nature, designed not to prosecute a parent, but to protect the child." In these proceedings, ‘the paramount concern is the child’s welfare.” (In re Malinda S., supra, 51 Cal.3d at p. 384 , italics added.) We further note that “[a]s a matter of constitutional principle, the United States Supreme Court has held that a state’s compelling interest in protecting child victims of sex crimes from further trauma may in some instances outweigh the right of confrontation.

13
Los Angeles County Department of Children's Services v. Dirk S.green
calctapp · 1993 · cited in 1 California opinions naming this issue, 2005–2005
2 sentences

2005(Maryland v. Craig (1990) 497 U.S. 836, 852 [ 111 L.Ed.2d 666 , 110 S.Ct. 3157 ] [upholding procedure of closed-circuit television testimony by child in criminal case].)’ [Citation.]” (In re Dirk S. (1993) 14 Cal.App.4th 1037, 1044 [ 17 Cal.Rptr.2d 643 ]; see Kailee B., supra, 18 Cal.App.4th at pp. 725-726.) As we recognized in Kailee B., a young child may not qualify to testify as a witness for any number of reasons, including the overwhelming intimidation of a courtroom setting.

2005(Maryland v. Craig (1990) 497 U.S. 836, 852 [ 111 L.Ed.2d 666 , 110 S.Ct. 3157 ] [upholding procedure of closed-circuit television testimony by child in criminal case].)’ [Citation.]” (In re Dirk S. (1993) 14 Cal.App.4th 1037, 1044 [ 17 Cal.Rptr.2d 643 ]; see Kailee B., supra, 18 Cal.App.4th at pp. 725-726.) As we recognized in Kailee B., a young child may not qualify to testify as a witness for any number of reasons, including the overwhelming intimidation of a courtroom setting.

11
Mandel v. Myersgreen
cal · 1981 · cited in 1 California opinions naming this issue, 1995–1995
2 sentences

1995Power must be placed somewhere, and *1741 confidence reposed in some one.” (Myers v. English, supra, 9 Cal. at p. 349 , original italics, disapproved in other part in Mandel v. Myers (1981) 29 Cal.3d 531, 551, fn. 9 [ 174 Cal.Rptr. 841 , 629 P.2d 935 ].) In Wilson v. Superior Court, supra, 194 Cal.App.3d at page 1268 , the court referred to the same subject matter: “It is well established as a matter of constitutional doctrine, basic to our form of government, that the judicial branch cannot directly and prospectively require a specific legislative act.” The court in Wilson then drew a paralle

1995Power must be placed somewhere, and *1741 confidence reposed in some one.” (Myers v. English, supra, 9 Cal. at p. 349 , original italics, disapproved in other part in Mandel v. Myers (1981) 29 Cal.3d 531, 551, fn. 9 [ 174 Cal.Rptr. 841 , 629 P.2d 935 ].) In Wilson v. Superior Court, supra, 194 Cal.App.3d at page 1268 , the court referred to the same subject matter: “It is well established as a matter of constitutional doctrine, basic to our form of government, that the judicial branch cannot directly and prospectively require a specific legislative act.” The court in Wilson then drew a paralle

11
In Re Elizabeth T.green
calctapp · 1992 · cited in 1 California opinions naming this issue, 1993–1993
2 sentences

1993(Ma ryland v. Craig (1990) 497 U.S. 836, 852 [ 111 L.Ed.2d 666, 683 , 110 S.Ct. 3157 ] [upholding procedure of closed-circuit television testimony by child in criminal case].)” (In re Elizabeth T. (1992) 9 Cal.App.4th 636, 641 [ 12 Cal.Rptr.2d 10 ].) Certainly, the due process rights of parents in dependency proceedings are no more extensive than the rights of defendants in criminal proceedings, the latter entailing a greater threat to an individual’s liberty interests. 4 Here, Ashley was unavailable as a witness by reason of her incompetency to testify.

1993(Ma ryland v. Craig (1990) 497 U.S. 836, 852 [ 111 L.Ed.2d 666, 683 , 110 S.Ct. 3157 ] [upholding procedure of closed-circuit television testimony by child in criminal case].)” (In re Elizabeth T. (1992) 9 Cal.App.4th 636, 641 [ 12 Cal.Rptr.2d 10 ].) Certainly, the due process rights of parents in dependency proceedings are no more extensive than the rights of defendants in criminal proceedings, the latter entailing a greater threat to an individual’s liberty interests. 4 Here, Ashley was unavailable as a witness by reason of her incompetency to testify.

11
People v. Lawrencegreen
cal · 1971 · cited in 1 California opinions naming this issue, 1980–1980
2 sentences

1980Instead, we hold that each case must be considered on its own facts, and that convictions based on eyewitness identification at trial following a pretrial identification by photograph will be set aside on that ground only if the photographic identification procedure was so impermissibly suggestive as to give rise to a very substantial likelihood of irreparable misiden'tification.””’ (Also see People v. Lawrence (1971) 4 Cal.3d 273, 278-279 [ 93 Cal.Rptr. 204 , 481 P.2d 212 ].) The procedure used here was not “impermissibly suggestive” as contended by defendant.

1980Instead, we hold that each case must be considered on its own facts, and that convictions based on eyewitness identification at trial following a pretrial identification by photograph will be set aside on that ground only if the photographic identification procedure was so impermissibly suggestive as to give rise to a very substantial likelihood of irreparable misiden'tification.””’ (Also see People v. Lawrence (1971) 4 Cal.3d 273, 278-279 [ 93 Cal.Rptr. 204 , 481 P.2d 212 ].) The procedure used here was not “impermissibly suggestive” as contended by defendant.

11
Gertz v. Robert Welch, Inc.green
scotus · 1974 · cited in 1 California opinions naming this issue, 1980–1980
2 sentences

1980Gertz declared that states may define for themselves the appropriate standard of liability for a publisher or broadcaster of defamatory falsehoods injurious to a private individual “so long as they do not impose liability without fault” ( 418 U.S. at p. 347 [ 41 L.Ed.2d at p. 809 ]), and while Gertz involved media defendants some courts have found the principle applicable to nonmedia defendants as well.

1980Gertz declared that states may define for themselves the appropriate standard of liability for a publisher or broadcaster of defamatory falsehoods injurious to a private individual “so long as they do not impose liability without fault” ( 418 U.S. at p. 347 [ 41 L.Ed.2d at p. 809 ]), and while Gertz involved media defendants some courts have found the principle applicable to nonmedia defendants as well.

11
Russi v. Superior Courtgreen
calctapp · 1973 · cited in 1 California opinions naming this issue, 1978–1978
2 sentences

1978The California Supreme Court (People v. Mason, 5 Cal.3d 759 [ 97 Cal.Rptr. 302 , 488 P.2d 630 ]) justifies the warrantless search, the invasion of Fourth Amendment rights, of the narcotics-offender-probationer on the premise of a “reduced expectation of privacy” (id. at pp. 764-765) flowing from the individual’s consent given as part of the sentencing procedure. 2 Under the Mason rationale a probationer who has waived *833 the Fourth Amendment right would have no reasonable expectation of privacy as to those conditions which are necessitated “by legitimate governmental demands.” Consent to sea

1978The California Supreme Court (People v. Mason, 5 Cal.3d 759 [ 97 Cal.Rptr. 302 , 488 P.2d 630 ]) justifies the warrantless search, the invasion of Fourth Amendment rights, of the narcotics-offender-probationer on the premise of a “reduced expectation of privacy” (id. at pp. 764-765) flowing from the individual’s consent given as part of the sentencing procedure. 2 Under the Mason rationale a probationer who has waived *833 the Fourth Amendment right would have no reasonable expectation of privacy as to those conditions which are necessitated “by legitimate governmental demands.” Consent to sea

11
People v. Fitzpatrickgreen
calctapp · 1970 · cited in 1 California opinions naming this issue, 1978–1978
2 sentences

1978The California Supreme Court (People v. Mason, 5 Cal.3d 759 [ 97 Cal.Rptr. 302 , 488 P.2d 630 ]) justifies the warrantless search, the invasion of Fourth Amendment rights, of the narcotics-offender-probationer on the premise of a “reduced expectation of privacy” (id. at pp. 764-765) flowing from the individual’s consent given as part of the sentencing procedure. 2 Under the Mason rationale a probationer who has waived *833 the Fourth Amendment right would have no reasonable expectation of privacy as to those conditions which are necessitated “by legitimate governmental demands.” Consent to sea

1978The California Supreme Court (People v. Mason, 5 Cal.3d 759 [ 97 Cal.Rptr. 302 , 488 P.2d 630 ]) justifies the warrantless search, the invasion of Fourth Amendment rights, of the narcotics-offender-probationer on the premise of a “reduced expectation of privacy” (id. at pp. 764-765) flowing from the individual’s consent given as part of the sentencing procedure. 2 Under the Mason rationale a probationer who has waived *833 the Fourth Amendment right would have no reasonable expectation of privacy as to those conditions which are necessitated “by legitimate governmental demands.” Consent to sea

11
People v. Calaisgreen
calctapp · 1974 · cited in 1 California opinions naming this issue, 1978–1978
2 sentences

1978The California Supreme Court (People v. Mason, 5 Cal.3d 759 [ 97 Cal.Rptr. 302 , 488 P.2d 630 ]) justifies the warrantless search, the invasion of Fourth Amendment rights, of the narcotics-offender-probationer on the premise of a “reduced expectation of privacy” (id. at pp. 764-765) flowing from the individual’s consent given as part of the sentencing procedure. 2 Under the Mason rationale a probationer who has waived *833 the Fourth Amendment right would have no reasonable expectation of privacy as to those conditions which are necessitated “by legitimate governmental demands.” Consent to sea

1978The California Supreme Court (People v. Mason, 5 Cal.3d 759 [ 97 Cal.Rptr. 302 , 488 P.2d 630 ]) justifies the warrantless search, the invasion of Fourth Amendment rights, of the narcotics-offender-probationer on the premise of a “reduced expectation of privacy” (id. at pp. 764-765) flowing from the individual’s consent given as part of the sentencing procedure. 2 Under the Mason rationale a probationer who has waived *833 the Fourth Amendment right would have no reasonable expectation of privacy as to those conditions which are necessitated “by legitimate governmental demands.” Consent to sea

11
People v. Kerngreen
calctapp · 1968 · cited in 1 California opinions naming this issue, 1978–1978
2 sentences

1978The California Supreme Court (People v. Mason, 5 Cal.3d 759 [ 97 Cal.Rptr. 302 , 488 P.2d 630 ]) justifies the warrantless search, the invasion of Fourth Amendment rights, of the narcotics-offender-probationer on the premise of a “reduced expectation of privacy” (id. at pp. 764-765) flowing from the individual’s consent given as part of the sentencing procedure. 2 Under the Mason rationale a probationer who has waived *833 the Fourth Amendment right would have no reasonable expectation of privacy as to those conditions which are necessitated “by legitimate governmental demands.” Consent to sea

1978The California Supreme Court (People v. Mason, 5 Cal.3d 759 [ 97 Cal.Rptr. 302 , 488 P.2d 630 ]) justifies the warrantless search, the invasion of Fourth Amendment rights, of the narcotics-offender-probationer on the premise of a “reduced expectation of privacy” (id. at pp. 764-765) flowing from the individual’s consent given as part of the sentencing procedure. 2 Under the Mason rationale a probationer who has waived *833 the Fourth Amendment right would have no reasonable expectation of privacy as to those conditions which are necessitated “by legitimate governmental demands.” Consent to sea

11
Stovall v. Dennogreen
scotus · 1967 · cited in 1 California opinions naming this issue, 1968–1968
2 sentences

1968(Stovall v. Denno, 388 U.S. 293, 302 [ 18 L.Ed.2d 1199, 1206 , 87 S.Ct. 1967 ]; People v. Feggans, 67 Cal.2d 444 , 448 *46 [ 62 Cal.Rptr. 419 , 432 P.2d 21 ].)” In Simmons v. United States (1968) 390 U.S. 377, 384 [ 19 L.Ed.2d 1247, 1253 , 88 S.Ct. 967 ], in discussing the use of photographs in aid of identification, the court states the rule applicable: “We are unwilling to prohibit its employment, either in the exercise of our supervisory power or, still less, as a matter of constitutional requirement.

1968(Stovall v. Denno, 388 U.S. 293, 302 [ 18 L.Ed.2d 1199, 1206 , 87 S.Ct. 1967 ]; People v. Feggans, 67 Cal.2d 444 , 448 *46 [ 62 Cal.Rptr. 419 , 432 P.2d 21 ].)” In Simmons v. United States (1968) 390 U.S. 377, 384 [ 19 L.Ed.2d 1247, 1253 , 88 S.Ct. 967 ], in discussing the use of photographs in aid of identification, the court states the rule applicable: “We are unwilling to prohibit its employment, either in the exercise of our supervisory power or, still less, as a matter of constitutional requirement.

11

Distinguished, questioned or overruled (0)

CaseNegativeCited
No negative-treatment citations attached to this issue in California. Read the followed side critically anyway.

Also cited on this issue (7)

CaseCitedYears
Romo v. Ford Motor Co. green
calctapp · 2003
2 sentences

2005Drawing heavily on a law review article (Colby, Beyond the Multiple Punishment Problem: Punitive Damages as Punishment for Individual, Private Wrongs (2003) 87 Minn. L.Rev. 583 (hereafter Beyond the Multiple Punishment Problem )), the Romo court distinguished between a "narrow" "historically based" view of punitive damages and the "broad" view the court believed had recently prevailed in California and other jurisdictions ( Romo, supra, 113 Cal.App.4th at pp. 748-749, 6 Cal.Rptr.3d 793 ) and concluded that the United States Supreme Court had adopted the narrow view as a matter of constitutiona

2005Drawing heavily on a law review article (Colby, Beyond the Multiple Punishment Problem: Punitive Damages as Punishment for Individual, Private Wrongs (2003) 87 Minn. L.Rev. 583 (hereafter Beyond the Multiple Punishment Problem )), the Romo court distinguished between a "narrow" "historically based" view of punitive damages and the "broad" view the court believed had recently prevailed in California and other jurisdictions ( Romo, supra, 113 Cal.App.4th at pp. 748-749, 6 Cal.Rptr.3d 793 ) and concluded that the United States Supreme Court had adopted the narrow view as a matter of constitutiona

12005–2005
Twelve John Does v. District of Columbia green
cadc · 1988
1 sentence

1995For example, in Twelve John Does v. District of Columbia (1988) 861 F.2d 295 [ 274 App.D.C. 62 ], the court of appeals upheld for the most part a number of district court orders upholding and enforcing a population cap established by a consent decree at a particular jail facility.

11995–1995
Wilson v. Superior Court green
calctapp · 1987
1 sentence

1995Power must be placed somewhere, and *1741 confidence reposed in some one.” (Myers v. English, supra, 9 Cal. at p. 349 , original italics, disapproved in other part in Mandel v. Myers (1981) 29 Cal.3d 531, 551, fn. 9 [ 174 Cal.Rptr. 841 , 629 P.2d 935 ].) In Wilson v. Superior Court, supra, 194 Cal.App.3d at page 1268 , the court referred to the same subject matter: “It is well established as a matter of constitutional doctrine, basic to our form of government, that the judicial branch cannot directly and prospectively require a specific legislative act.” The court in Wilson then drew a paralle

11995–1995
Myers v. English green
cal · 1858
1 sentence

1995Power must be placed somewhere, and *1741 confidence reposed in some one.” (Myers v. English, supra, 9 Cal. at p. 349 , original italics, disapproved in other part in Mandel v. Myers (1981) 29 Cal.3d 531, 551, fn. 9 [ 174 Cal.Rptr. 841 , 629 P.2d 935 ].) In Wilson v. Superior Court, supra, 194 Cal.App.3d at page 1268 , the court referred to the same subject matter: “It is well established as a matter of constitutional doctrine, basic to our form of government, that the judicial branch cannot directly and prospectively require a specific legislative act.” The court in Wilson then drew a paralle

11995–1995
Coleman v. Alabama green
scotus · 1970
2 sentences

1991In most cases, however, their value would be too slight to justify holding, as a matter of constitutional principle, that these formalities and safeguards designed for trial must also be employed in making the Fourth Amendment determination of probable cause.” (420 U.S. at pp. 121-122 [43 L.Ed.2d at pp. 69-70], fn. omitted.) The Gerstein court acknowledged that a prior decision (Coleman v. Alabama (1970) 399 U.S. 1 [ 26 L.Ed.2d 387 , 90 S.Ct. 1999 ]) had held an Alabama preliminary hearing was a “critical stage” of the prosecution for which the presence of counsel was required.

1991In most cases, however, their value would be too slight to justify holding, as a matter of constitutional principle, that these formalities and safeguards designed for trial must also be employed in making the Fourth Amendment determination of probable cause.” (420 U.S. at pp. 121-122 [43 L.Ed.2d at pp. 69-70], fn. omitted.) The Gerstein court acknowledged that a prior decision (Coleman v. Alabama (1970) 399 U.S. 1 [ 26 L.Ed.2d 387 , 90 S.Ct. 1999 ]) had held an Alabama preliminary hearing was a “critical stage” of the prosecution for which the presence of counsel was required.

11991–1991
People v. Mason red
cal · 1971
2 sentences

1978The California Supreme Court (People v. Mason, 5 Cal.3d 759 [ 97 Cal.Rptr. 302 , 488 P.2d 630 ]) justifies the warrantless search, the invasion of Fourth Amendment rights, of the narcotics-offender-probationer on the premise of a “reduced expectation of privacy” (id. at pp. 764-765) flowing from the individual’s consent given as part of the sentencing procedure. 2 Under the Mason rationale a probationer who has waived *833 the Fourth Amendment right would have no reasonable expectation of privacy as to those conditions which are necessitated “by legitimate governmental demands.” Consent to sea

1978The California Supreme Court (People v. Mason, 5 Cal.3d 759 [ 97 Cal.Rptr. 302 , 488 P.2d 630 ]) justifies the warrantless search, the invasion of Fourth Amendment rights, of the narcotics-offender-probationer on the premise of a “reduced expectation of privacy” (id. at pp. 764-765) flowing from the individual’s consent given as part of the sentencing procedure. 2 Under the Mason rationale a probationer who has waived *833 the Fourth Amendment right would have no reasonable expectation of privacy as to those conditions which are necessitated “by legitimate governmental demands.” Consent to sea

11978–1978
People v. Feggans green
cal · 1967
2 sentences

1968(Stovall v. Denno, 388 U.S. 293, 302 [ 18 L.Ed.2d 1199, 1206 , 87 S.Ct. 1967 ]; People v. Feggans, 67 Cal.2d 444 , 448 *46 [ 62 Cal.Rptr. 419 , 432 P.2d 21 ].)” In Simmons v. United States (1968) 390 U.S. 377, 384 [ 19 L.Ed.2d 1247, 1253 , 88 S.Ct. 967 ], in discussing the use of photographs in aid of identification, the court states the rule applicable: “We are unwilling to prohibit its employment, either in the exercise of our supervisory power or, still less, as a matter of constitutional requirement.

1968(Stovall v. Denno, 388 U.S. 293, 302 [ 18 L.Ed.2d 1199, 1206 , 87 S.Ct. 1967 ]; People v. Feggans, 67 Cal.2d 444 , 448 *46 [ 62 Cal.Rptr. 419 , 432 P.2d 21 ].)” In Simmons v. United States (1968) 390 U.S. 377, 384 [ 19 L.Ed.2d 1247, 1253 , 88 S.Ct. 967 ], in discussing the use of photographs in aid of identification, the court states the rule applicable: “We are unwilling to prohibit its employment, either in the exercise of our supervisory power or, still less, as a matter of constitutional requirement.

11968–1968

Where else courts name it

CA 15 (1968–2005) MO 7 (1971–1992) IL 7 (1969–2020) FL 5 (1969–2010) NY 5 (1973–2024) MA 4 (1986–2006) IN 3 (1975–1998) VI 3 (1991–2015) CT 2 (1971–2025) VT 2 (1974–2009) OR 2 (2001–2001) MD 2 (1968–1975) PA 2 (1989–2013) RI 2 (1972–1983) MI 2 (1968–1977) NC 2 (1970–1971)

Opinions by the citing court's state. A doctrine retained in one state and abandoned in another shows up here as a year span that stalls.

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