13 District of Columbia opinions name it 1 courts 1974–2024 2 in the last five years
The cases below were cited by District of Columbia courts in a sentence that names this issue. Sides come from how each citing opinion treated the case (Syfertize flag on that citation), so a case can appear on both: that is where the law is contested. A red or yellow chip is the case's own overall treatment.
| Case | Followed | Cited |
|---|---|---|
Bruton v. United Statesgreen2 sentences2024In Rowe, the government waited until the third day of a joint trial to seek a ruling from the trial court regarding a Bruton issue, see Bruton v. United States, 391 U.S. 123 (1968), which concerns whether the state can admit one co-defendant’s confession when it clearly implicates another co-defendant (raising a Confrontation Clause issue where the confessing co-defendant chooses not to testify and so cannot be confronted), Rowe, 480 A.2d at 780-81 . 1997Hagans nevertheless contends that these measures were inadequate to protect him against the confession of a codefendant whom he was unable to confront, see Bruton v. United States, 391 U.S. 123 , 88 S.Ct. 1620 , 20 L.Ed.2d 476 (1968), for the same reason we found such measures inadequate in Akins v. United States, supra. Specifically, for purposes of Bruton analysis, Hagans contends there is no conceptual difference between his alleged role as aider and abettor and the alleged coconspirator status of the defendants Barnes and Carrero in Akins , as to whom we found redaction and a limiting inst | 3 | 5 |
Carpenter v. United Statesgreen2 sentences2012Baxter’s taking the stand obviated a Bruton issue, but the confession was nonetheless inadmissible because “under the traditional rules of evidence, it constitutes inadmissible hearsay and has no legitimate probative force against the non-confessing codefendant.” Carpenter v. United States, 430 A.2d 496, 500 (D.C.1981) (en banc) (citing Sousa v. United States, 400 A.2d 1036, 1043 (1979)). 2011Even if a statement is not testimonial, and therefore outside the Bruton rule, the trial judge is still bound by Criminal Rule 14 to “take adequate steps to reduce or eliminate any prejudice arising from joinder.” Carpenter v. United States, 430 A.2d 496, 503 (D.C.1981). | 2 | 2 |
Richardson v. Marshgreen2 sentences2000This rule was further refined in Richardson, supra, 481 U.S. at 211 , 107 S.Ct. 1702 (1987), where the United States Supreme Court rejected the “contextual implication” doctrine used by the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals to determine whether a Bruton issue existed, id. at 209 , 107 S.Ct. 1702 , and held that where a defendant’s name and any reference to the defendant’s existence are eliminated from the co-defendant’s extrajudicial statement, the statement is properly admitted, with limiting instructions, regardless of any inference of the defendant’s guilt that arises when the statement is lin 2000This rule was further refined in Richardson, supra, 481 U.S. at 211 , 107 S.Ct. 1702 (1987), where the United States Supreme Court rejected the “contextual implication” doctrine used by the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals to determine whether a Bruton issue existed, id. at 209 , 107 S.Ct. 1702 , and held that where a defendant’s name and any reference to the defendant’s existence are eliminated from the co-defendant’s extrajudicial statement, the statement is properly admitted, with limiting instructions, regardless of any inference of the defendant’s guilt that arises when the statement is lin | 1 | 4 |
Jackson v. United Statesgreen1 sentence2024As Martin put it in the supplemental brief he filed on the Geders issue, the infringement of his Sixth Amendment right to counsel “happened at a critical time,” just before “what turned out to be one of the most important days of trial.” In (Reginald A.) Jackson, the trial court order directed the defendant to “discuss nothing with anyone, not even [his] lawyer” during a luncheon recess after his lawyer had finished with his direct examination. 420 A.2d at 1202, 1203 . | 1 | 1 |
Sousa v. United Statesgreen1 sentence2012Baxter’s taking the stand obviated a Bruton issue, but the confession was nonetheless inadmissible because “under the traditional rules of evidence, it constitutes inadmissible hearsay and has no legitimate probative force against the non-confessing codefendant.” Carpenter v. United States, 430 A.2d 496, 500 (D.C.1981) (en banc) (citing Sousa v. United States, 400 A.2d 1036, 1043 (1979)). | 1 | 1 |
United States v. Trelliny T. Turnergreen2 sentences2009See, e.g., United States v. Turner, 474 F.3d 1265, 1275 (11th Cir.2007) (stating "we ... review issues concerning a district court's evidentiary rulings, such as the Bruton claim here, for abuse of discretion,” despite clear Bruton error); United States v. Yousef, 327 F.3d 56, 150 (2d Cir.2003) (holding that trial court did not abuse its discretion in deciding to redact confessions rather than sever, and that because redactions were not obvious, "admission of the redacted statement did not violate the Bruton doctrine and was not an abuse of discretion”); United States v. Sotomayor-Vazquez, 249 2009See, e.g., United States v. Turner, 474 F.3d 1265, 1275 (11th Cir.2007) (stating "we ... review issues concerning a district court's evidentiary rulings, such as the Bruton claim here, for abuse of discretion,” despite clear Bruton error); United States v. Yousef, 327 F.3d 56, 150 (2d Cir.2003) (holding that trial court did not abuse its discretion in deciding to redact confessions rather than sever, and that because redactions were not obvious, "admission of the redacted statement did not violate the Bruton doctrine and was not an abuse of discretion”); United States v. Sotomayor-Vazquez, 249 | 1 | 1 |
United States v. Lamonsgreen1 sentence2009See, e.g., United States v. Lamons, 532 F.3d 1251 , 1261 n. 15 (11th Cir.2008); United States v. Brito, 427 F.3d 53, 59 (1st Cir.2005). . | 1 | 1 |
United States v. Sotomayor-Vazquezgreen2 sentences2009See, e.g., United States v. Turner, 474 F.3d 1265, 1275 (11th Cir.2007) (stating "we ... review issues concerning a district court's evidentiary rulings, such as the Bruton claim here, for abuse of discretion,” despite clear Bruton error); United States v. Yousef, 327 F.3d 56, 150 (2d Cir.2003) (holding that trial court did not abuse its discretion in deciding to redact confessions rather than sever, and that because redactions were not obvious, "admission of the redacted statement did not violate the Bruton doctrine and was not an abuse of discretion”); United States v. Sotomayor-Vazquez, 249 2009See, e.g., United States v. Turner, 474 F.3d 1265, 1275 (11th Cir.2007) (stating "we ... review issues concerning a district court's evidentiary rulings, such as the Bruton claim here, for abuse of discretion,” despite clear Bruton error); United States v. Yousef, 327 F.3d 56, 150 (2d Cir.2003) (holding that trial court did not abuse its discretion in deciding to redact confessions rather than sever, and that because redactions were not obvious, "admission of the redacted statement did not violate the Bruton doctrine and was not an abuse of discretion”); United States v. Sotomayor-Vazquez, 249 | 1 | 1 |
United States v. Britogreen1 sentence2009See, e.g., United States v. Lamons, 532 F.3d 1251 , 1261 n. 15 (11th Cir.2008); United States v. Brito, 427 F.3d 53, 59 (1st Cir.2005). . | 1 | 1 |
Comford v. United Statesgreen2 sentences2009See, e.g., Comford, 947 A.2d at 1186 . 2009See, e.g., Comford, 947 A.2d at 1186 . | 1 | 1 |
United States v. Yousefgreen2 sentences2009See, e.g., United States v. Turner, 474 F.3d 1265, 1275 (11th Cir.2007) (stating "we ... review issues concerning a district court's evidentiary rulings, such as the Bruton claim here, for abuse of discretion,” despite clear Bruton error); United States v. Yousef, 327 F.3d 56, 150 (2d Cir.2003) (holding that trial court did not abuse its discretion in deciding to redact confessions rather than sever, and that because redactions were not obvious, "admission of the redacted statement did not violate the Bruton doctrine and was not an abuse of discretion”); United States v. Sotomayor-Vazquez, 249 2009See, e.g., United States v. Turner, 474 F.3d 1265, 1275 (11th Cir.2007) (stating "we ... review issues concerning a district court's evidentiary rulings, such as the Bruton claim here, for abuse of discretion,” despite clear Bruton error); United States v. Yousef, 327 F.3d 56, 150 (2d Cir.2003) (holding that trial court did not abuse its discretion in deciding to redact confessions rather than sever, and that because redactions were not obvious, "admission of the redacted statement did not violate the Bruton doctrine and was not an abuse of discretion”); United States v. Sotomayor-Vazquez, 249 | 1 | 1 |
United States v. Eric Lamont Williams, United States of America v. Gregory Caldwellgreen1 sentence2009See also United States v. Williams, 429 F.3d 767, 773-74 (8th Cir.2005) (noting possibility of Bruton violation where the redaction was “not seamlessly woven into the narrative ..., and the neutral pronoun 'someone' may have lost its anonymity by sheer repetition”). . | 1 | 1 |
United States v. Spotted Elkgreen1 sentence2009It is the testimonial character of the statement that separates it from other hearsay that, while subject to traditional limitations upon hearsay evidence, is not subject to the Confrontation Clause.” 547 U.S. at 821 , 126 S.Ct. 2266 (citation omitted). .Accord Geter, 929 A.2d at 431 n. 5 ("If the defendant who made the out-of-court statement does not testify, introduction of the un-redacted statement into evidence would violate the co-defendant's Sixth Amendment right of confrontation if the statement is testimonial in nature and it would not be admissible against the co-defendant in a separa | 1 | 1 |
United States v. Williamsgreen1 sentence2009It is the testimonial character of the statement that separates it from other hearsay that, while subject to traditional limitations upon hearsay evidence, is not subject to the Confrontation Clause.” 547 U.S. at 821 , 126 S.Ct. 2266 (citation omitted). .Accord Geter, 929 A.2d at 431 n. 5 ("If the defendant who made the out-of-court statement does not testify, introduction of the un-redacted statement into evidence would violate the co-defendant's Sixth Amendment right of confrontation if the statement is testimonial in nature and it would not be admissible against the co-defendant in a separa | 1 | 1 |
United States v. Verduzco-Martinezgreen1 sentence2000See, e.g., United States v. Akinkoye, 174 F.3d 451, 457 (4th Cir.1999) (finding no Bruton violation where the use of neutral phrases "another person” and "another individual” did not facially implicate the defendant); United States v. Vejar-Urias, 165 F.3d 337, 340 (5th Cir.1999) (holding that “[w]here a defendant's name is replaced with a neutral pronoun, as long as identification of the defendant is clear or inculpatory only by reference to evidence other than the redacted confession, and a limiting instruction, is given to the jury, there is no Bruton violation”); United States v. Verduzco- | 1 | 1 |
United States v. Akin Akinkoye, A/K/A A. Sam Akins, United States of America v. Nouyibatou Afolabigreen1 sentence2000See, e.g., United States v. Akinkoye, 174 F.3d 451, 457 (4th Cir.1999) (finding no Bruton violation where the use of neutral phrases "another person” and "another individual” did not facially implicate the defendant); United States v. Vejar-Urias, 165 F.3d 337, 340 (5th Cir.1999) (holding that “[w]here a defendant's name is replaced with a neutral pronoun, as long as identification of the defendant is clear or inculpatory only by reference to evidence other than the redacted confession, and a limiting instruction, is given to the jury, there is no Bruton violation”); United States v. Verduzco- | 1 | 1 |
United States v. Vejar-Uriasgreen1 sentence2000See, e.g., United States v. Akinkoye, 174 F.3d 451, 457 (4th Cir.1999) (finding no Bruton violation where the use of neutral phrases "another person” and "another individual” did not facially implicate the defendant); United States v. Vejar-Urias, 165 F.3d 337, 340 (5th Cir.1999) (holding that “[w]here a defendant's name is replaced with a neutral pronoun, as long as identification of the defendant is clear or inculpatory only by reference to evidence other than the redacted confession, and a limiting instruction, is given to the jury, there is no Bruton violation”); United States v. Verduzco- | 1 | 1 |
United States v. Petersongreen1 sentence2000See, e.g., United States v. Akinkoye, 174 F.3d 451, 457 (4th Cir.1999) (finding no Bruton violation where the use of neutral phrases "another person” and "another individual” did not facially implicate the defendant); United States v. Vejar-Urias, 165 F.3d 337, 340 (5th Cir.1999) (holding that “[w]here a defendant's name is replaced with a neutral pronoun, as long as identification of the defendant is clear or inculpatory only by reference to evidence other than the redacted confession, and a limiting instruction, is given to the jury, there is no Bruton violation”); United States v. Verduzco- | 1 | 1 |
| United States v. Hartley E. Greenleaf, Jr., United States of America v. William Brattongreen | 1 | 1 |
| United States v. Willie J. Keygreen | 1 | 1 |
United States of America Ex Rel. Alvin Nelson v. Harold Follette, Warden, Green Haven Prison, Stormville, New York,respondent-Appelleegreen2 sentences1988Nelson v. Follette, 430 F.2d 1055, 1059 (2d Cir.1970), cert. denied, 401 U.S. 917 , 91 S.Ct. 899 , 27 L.Ed. 2818 (1971))), rev'd on other grounds, 481 U.S. 200 , 107 S.Ct. 1702 , 95 L.Ed.2d 176 (1987); United States v. Cleveland, 590 F.2d 24, 29 (1st Cir.1978) (where independent evidence against defendants substantial, admission of confession which did not refer to defendants was not so prejudicial as to mandate a severance); United States v. Belle, supra, 593 F.2d at 501, 508 (Gibbons, J., dissenting) whether redacted codefendant's confession is particularly significant in prosecution's case 1988Nelson v. Follette, 430 F.2d 1055, 1059 (2d Cir.1970), cert. denied, 401 U.S. 917 , 91 S.Ct. 899 , 27 L.Ed. 2818 (1971))), rev’d on other grounds, 481 U.S. 200 , 107 S.Ct. 1702 , 95 L.Ed.2d 176 (1987); United States v. Cleveland, 590 F.2d 24, 29 (1st Cir.1978) (where independent evidence against defendants substantial, admission of confession which did not refer to defendants was not so prejudicial as to mandate a severance); United States v. Belle, supra, 593 F.2d at 501, 508 (Gibbons, J., dissenting) whether redacted codefendant’s confession is particularly significant in prosecution’s case | 1 | 1 |
| United States v. Frank Wingate and Kenneth Luke Smithgreen | 1 | 1 |
| United States v. Jose Gonzalez and Jose Vicente Costanogreen | 1 | 1 |
| United States v. Richard Lester Cleveland, Jr., United States of America v. Robert William Leweygreen | 1 | 1 |
| Cruz v. New Yorkgreen | 1 | 1 |
| Case | Negative | Cited |
|---|---|---|
| No negative-treatment citations attached to this issue in District of Columbia. Read the followed side critically anyway. | ||
| Case | Cited | Years |
|---|---|---|
State v. Rowe
green
2 sentences2024In Rowe, the government waited until the third day of a joint trial to seek a ruling from the trial court regarding a Bruton issue, see Bruton v. United States, 391 U.S. 123 (1968), which concerns whether the state can admit one co-defendant’s confession when it clearly implicates another co-defendant (raising a Confrontation Clause issue where the confessing co-defendant chooses not to testify and so cannot be confronted), Rowe, 480 A.2d at 780-81 . 2024Id. at 782-83 . | 1 | 2024–2024 |
Thomas v. United States
green
2 sentences2011“Specifically, we held, ‘Rule 14 requires that the trial court take appropriate steps to minimize the prejudice inherent in code-fendant confessions which are inadmissible against the nondeclarant defendant’ even when the declarant is available for cross-examination.” Thomas, supra, 978 A.2d at 1223 -24 (quoting Carpenter, supra, 430 A.2d at 502 ). 2011“Specifically, we held, ‘Rule 14 requires that the trial court take appropriate steps to minimize the prejudice inherent in code-fendant confessions which are inadmissible against the nondeclarant defendant’ even when the declarant is available for cross-examination.” Thomas, supra, 978 A.2d at 1223 -24 (quoting Carpenter, supra, 430 A.2d at 502 ). | 1 | 2011–2011 |
Davis v. Washington
green
2 sentences2009It is the testimonial character of the statement that separates it from other hearsay that, while subject to traditional limitations upon hearsay evidence, is not subject to the Confrontation Clause.” 547 U.S. at 821 , 126 S.Ct. 2266 (citation omitted). .Accord Geter, 929 A.2d at 431 n. 5 ("If the defendant who made the out-of-court statement does not testify, introduction of the un-redacted statement into evidence would violate the co-defendant's Sixth Amendment right of confrontation if the statement is testimonial in nature and it would not be admissible against the co-defendant in a separa 2009It is the testimonial character of the statement that separates it from other hearsay that, while subject to traditional limitations upon hearsay evidence, is not subject to the Confrontation Clause.” 547 U.S. at 821 , 126 S.Ct. 2266 (citation omitted). .Accord Geter, 929 A.2d at 431 n. 5 ("If the defendant who made the out-of-court statement does not testify, introduction of the un-redacted statement into evidence would violate the co-defendant's Sixth Amendment right of confrontation if the statement is testimonial in nature and it would not be admissible against the co-defendant in a separa | 1 | 2009–2009 |
Geter v. United States
green
1 sentence2009It is the testimonial character of the statement that separates it from other hearsay that, while subject to traditional limitations upon hearsay evidence, is not subject to the Confrontation Clause.” 547 U.S. at 821 , 126 S.Ct. 2266 (citation omitted). .Accord Geter, 929 A.2d at 431 n. 5 ("If the defendant who made the out-of-court statement does not testify, introduction of the un-redacted statement into evidence would violate the co-defendant's Sixth Amendment right of confrontation if the statement is testimonial in nature and it would not be admissible against the co-defendant in a separa | 1 | 2009–2009 |
United States v. Wilson, Ralph T.
green
1 sentence2000See, e.g., United States v. Akinkoye, 174 F.3d 451, 457 (4th Cir.1999) (finding no Bruton violation where the use of neutral phrases "another person” and "another individual” did not facially implicate the defendant); United States v. Vejar-Urias, 165 F.3d 337, 340 (5th Cir.1999) (holding that “[w]here a defendant's name is replaced with a neutral pronoun, as long as identification of the defendant is clear or inculpatory only by reference to evidence other than the redacted confession, and a limiting instruction, is given to the jury, there is no Bruton violation”); United States v. Verduzco- | 1 | 2000–2000 |
Foster v. United States
green
1 sentence2000Soon thereafter, this court in Foster v. United States, 548 A.2d 1370 (D.C.1988), was faced with a circumstance where the redacted statement did not eliminate any and all references to a defendant, but instead substituted a neutral reference for the defendant’s name. 10 In Foster , while finding a denial of the right of confrontation in light of the evidence adduced at trial, this court held that a redacted statement that does not eliminate all references to the existence of a defendant, but substitutes a neutral pronoun in place of an individual’s name may be properly admitted at trial, along | 1 | 2000–2000 |
Akins v. United States
green
1 sentence1997We conclude, to the contrary, that our holding in Akins rested upon the “unique theory of [vicarious] liability,” Akins, 679 A.2d at 1028 , on which the jury was instructed in that case, and that this holding may not be transposed to the related but distinctively different context of aiding and abetting. 3 In Akins the defendants were charged with conspiracy as well as substantive offenses. | 1 | 1997–1997 |
| Douglas v. Alabama green | 1 | 1988–1988 |
Harrington v. California
red
2 sentences1988In certain cases, the independent trial evidence may make it "as clear as pointing and shouting that the person referred to [is] the [defendant]," Harrington v. California, 395 U.S. 250, 253 , 89 S.Ct. 1726, 1728 , 23 L.Ed.2d 284 (1969), and for this reason it cannot fairly be said that limiting instructions will always prove effective. [3] If the jury follows its instructions, there is "no error, constitutional or otherwise." Cruz v. New York, 107 S.Ct. 1714, 1719 (1987) (White, J., dissenting); see Richardson v. Marsh, supra . [4] Although Richardson specifically left open the question wheth 1988In certain cases, the independent trial evidence may make it "as clear as pointing and shouting that the person referred to [is] the [defendant]," Harrington v. California, 395 U.S. 250, 253 , 89 S.Ct. 1726, 1728 , 23 L.Ed.2d 284 (1969), and for this reason it cannot fairly be said that limiting instructions will always prove effective. [3] If the jury follows its instructions, there is "no error, constitutional or otherwise." Cruz v. New York, 107 S.Ct. 1714, 1719 (1987) (White, J., dissenting); see Richardson v. Marsh, supra . [4] Although Richardson specifically left open the question wheth | 1 | 1988–1988 |
| Clarissa Marsh v. Gloria Richardson green | 1 | 1988–1988 |
| Chapman v. California red | 1 | 1988–1988 |
Otasco, Inc. v. United States
green
2 sentences1988See United States v. Wingate, supra, 520 F.2d at 313 (cautionary instructions ineffective under Bruton only where extrajudicial statement clearly inculpatory as to defendant and vitally important to government's case); United States v. Key, supra, 725 F.2d at 1126 ( Bruton violation where confession clearly inculpatory and vital to government's proof); United States v. Greenleaf, 692 F.2d 182, 189 (1st Cir.1982) (where there existed substantial evidence independent of extrajudicial statement linking defendant to crime, fact that statement corroborated government's case not enough to satisfy po 1988See United States v. Wingate, supra, 520 F.2d at 313 (cautionary instructions ineffective under Bruton only where extrajudicial statement clearly inculpatory as to defendant and vitally important to government’s case); United States v. Key, supra, 725 F.2d at 1126 (Bruton violation where confession clearly inculpatory and vital to government’s proof); United States v. Greenleaf, 692 F.2d 182, 189 (1st Cir.1982) (where there existed substantial evidence independent of extrajudicial statement linking defendant to crime, fact that statement corroborated government’s case not enough to satisfy pow | 1 | 1988–1988 |
| Isadore Hodges, Jr., and Andrew Lewis, Jr. v. James Rose, Warden green | 1 | 1988–1988 |
| Ward v. California green | 1 | 1988–1988 |
Lewis v. United States
neutral
2 sentences1988Nelson v. Follette, 430 F.2d 1055, 1059 (2d Cir.1970), cert. denied, 401 U.S. 917 , 91 S.Ct. 899 , 27 L.Ed. 2818 (1971))), rev'd on other grounds, 481 U.S. 200 , 107 S.Ct. 1702 , 95 L.Ed.2d 176 (1987); United States v. Cleveland, 590 F.2d 24, 29 (1st Cir.1978) (where independent evidence against defendants substantial, admission of confession which did not refer to defendants was not so prejudicial as to mandate a severance); United States v. Belle, supra, 593 F.2d at 501, 508 (Gibbons, J., dissenting) whether redacted codefendant's confession is particularly significant in prosecution's case 1988Nelson v. Follette, 430 F.2d 1055, 1059 (2d Cir.1970), cert. denied, 401 U.S. 917 , 91 S.Ct. 899 , 27 L.Ed. 2818 (1971))), rev’d on other grounds, 481 U.S. 200 , 107 S.Ct. 1702 , 95 L.Ed.2d 176 (1987); United States v. Cleveland, 590 F.2d 24, 29 (1st Cir.1978) (where independent evidence against defendants substantial, admission of confession which did not refer to defendants was not so prejudicial as to mandate a severance); United States v. Belle, supra, 593 F.2d at 501, 508 (Gibbons, J., dissenting) whether redacted codefendant’s confession is particularly significant in prosecution’s case | 1 | 1988–1988 |
Old Ben Coal Co. v. Blaize
green
2 sentences1988See United States v. Wingate, supra, 520 F.2d at 313 (cautionary instructions ineffective under Bruton only where extrajudicial statement clearly inculpatory as to defendant and vitally important to government's case); United States v. Key, supra, 725 F.2d at 1126 ( Bruton violation where confession clearly inculpatory and vital to government's proof); United States v. Greenleaf, 692 F.2d 182, 189 (1st Cir.1982) (where there existed substantial evidence independent of extrajudicial statement linking defendant to crime, fact that statement corroborated government's case not enough to satisfy po 1988See United States v. Wingate, supra, 520 F.2d at 313 (cautionary instructions ineffective under Bruton only where extrajudicial statement clearly inculpatory as to defendant and vitally important to government’s case); United States v. Key, supra, 725 F.2d at 1126 (Bruton violation where confession clearly inculpatory and vital to government’s proof); United States v. Greenleaf, 692 F.2d 182, 189 (1st Cir.1982) (where there existed substantial evidence independent of extrajudicial statement linking defendant to crime, fact that statement corroborated government’s case not enough to satisfy pow | 1 | 1988–1988 |
| Otasco, Inc. v. United States green | 1 | 1988–1988 |
| United States v. Jorn green | 1 | 1982–1982 |
| Smith v. United States green | 1 | 1974–1974 |
| Nelson v. O'NEIL green | 1 | 1974–1974 |
Opinions by the citing court's state. A doctrine retained in one state and abandoned in another shows up here as a year span that stalls.