English rule (Alabama) · Go Syfert
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English rule in Alabama

44 Alabama opinions name it 3 courts 1834–2014 0 in the last five years

The cases below were cited by Alabama courts in a sentence that names this issue. Sides come from how each citing opinion treated the case (Syfertize flag on that citation), so a case can appear on both: that is where the law is contested. A red or yellow chip is the case's own overall treatment.

Followed or applied (7)

CaseFollowedCited
Vincennes Steel Corporation v. Millergreen
ca5 · 1938 · cited in 1 Alabama opinions naming this issue, 2014–2014
2 sentences

2014Baez v. U.S. Department of Justice, 684 F.2d 999, 1002-04 (D.C.Cir.1982) (en banc) (per curiam); see generally Vincennes Steel Corp. v. Miller, 94 F.2d 347, 348-49 (5th Cir.1938); Trinidad Asphalt Paving Co. v. Robinson, 52 F. 347 (E.D.Mich.1892); 10 Charles Alan Wright, Arthur R.

2014Baez v. U.S. Department of Justice, 684 F.2d 999, 1002-04 (D.C.Cir.1982) (en banc) (per curiam); see generally Vincennes Steel Corp. v. Miller, 94 F.2d 347, 348-49 (5th Cir.1938); Trinidad Asphalt Paving Co. v. Robinson, 52 F. 347 (E.D.Mich.1892); 10 Charles Alan Wright, Arthur R.

11
Baez v. United States Department of Justicegreen
cadc · 1982 · cited in 1 Alabama opinions naming this issue, 2014–2014
2 sentences

2014Baez v. U.S. Department of Justice, 684 F.2d 999, 1002-04 (D.C.Cir.1982) (en banc) (per curiam); see generally Vincennes Steel Corp. v. Miller, 94 F.2d 347, 348-49 (5th Cir.1938); Trinidad Asphalt Paving Co. v. Robinson, 52 F. 347 (E.D.Mich.1892); 10 Charles Alan Wright, Arthur R.

2014Baez v. U.S. Department of Justice, 684 F.2d 999, 1002-04 (D.C.Cir.1982) (en banc) (per curiam); see generally Vincennes Steel Corp. v. Miller, 94 F.2d 347, 348-49 (5th Cir.1938); Trinidad Asphalt Paving Co. v. Robinson, 52 F. 347 (E.D.Mich.1892); 10 Charles Alan Wright, Arthur R.

11
Clark v. Bainesgreen
wash · 2004 · cited in 1 Alabama opinions naming this issue, 2014–2014
1 sentence

2014See Clark v. Baines, 150 Wash.2d 905 , 84 P.3d 245 (2004).

11
Clark v. Bainesgreen
wash · 2004 · cited in 1 Alabama opinions naming this issue, 2014–2014
1 sentence

2014See Clark v. Baines, 150 Wash.2d 905 , 84 P.3d 245 (2004).

11
Missouri v. Jenkinsgreen
scotus · 1995 · cited in 1 Alabama opinions naming this issue, 2013–2013
1 sentence

2013See id. .

11
Minges v. City of Birminghamgreen
ala · 1948 · cited in 1 Alabama opinions naming this issue, 1997–1997
2 sentences

1997In fact, in Minges v. City of Birmingham, 251 Ala. 65, 69 , 36 So.2d 93, 96 (1948), Justice Livingston, writing for this Court in an actual case, provided a more complete quote of the relevant passage from American Jurisprudence, as follows: “Under the English rule, a lottery consists in the distribution of money or other property by chance, and nothing but chance, that is, by doing that which is equivalent to drawing lots.

1997In fact, in Minges v. City of Birmingham, 251 Ala. 65, 69 , 36 So.2d 93, 96 (1948), Justice Livingston, writing for this Court in an actual case, provided a more complete quote of the relevant passage from American Jurisprudence, as follows: “Under the English rule, a lottery consists in the distribution of money or other property by chance, and nothing but chance, that is, by doing that which is equivalent to drawing lots.

11
Anderson v. Robinsongreen
ala · 1913 · cited in 1 Alabama opinions naming this issue, 1980–1980
2 sentences

1980Courteneay v. Earle , 10 C.B. 73 , 70 E.C.L. 73. * * *" (Emphasis added.) 182 Ala. at 619 , 620 , 62 So. at 513-514.

1980Courteneay v. Earle , 10 C.B. 73 , 70 E.C.L. 73. * * *" (Emphasis added.) 182 Ala. at 619 , 620 , 62 So. at 513-514.

11

Distinguished, questioned or overruled (0)

CaseNegativeCited
No negative-treatment citations attached to this issue in Alabama. Read the followed side critically anyway.

Also cited on this issue (63)

CaseCitedYears
Madden v. State neutral
alactapp · 1959
2 sentences

1964CARROLL: We would like to except to the Court’s ruling. “(Jury brought around and seated in jurybox.)” As the appellant aptly points out in his brief, this court through Mr. Justice Harwood, then our Presiding Judge, stated in Madden v. State, 40 Ala.App. 271 , 112 So.2d 796 , that we use the so-called English rule of cross-examination.

1964CARROLL: We would like to except to the Court’s ruling. “(Jury brought around and seated in jurybox.)” As the appellant aptly points out in his brief, this court through Mr. Justice Harwood, then our Presiding Judge, stated in Madden v. State, 40 Ala.App. 271 , 112 So.2d 796 , that we use the so-called English rule of cross-examination.

31964–1971
Holmes v. State neutral
ala · 1959
2 sentences

1971Madden v. State, 40 Ala.App. 271 , 112 So.2d 796 , cert. denied, 269 Ala. 697 , 112 So.2d 800 .” Section 443, Title 7, Code 1940, must be reasonably construed so as not to deprive the trial judge of discretion reasonably exercised to limit the range of cross-examination in respect to collateral and irrelevant matter. — Powell v. Powell, 285 Ala. 230 , 231 So.2d 103 .

1971Madden v. State, 40 Ala.App. 271 , 112 So.2d 796 , cert. denied, 269 Ala. 697 , 112 So.2d 800 .” Section 443, Title 7, Code 1940, must be reasonably construed so as not to deprive the trial judge of discretion reasonably exercised to limit the range of cross-examination in respect to collateral and irrelevant matter. — Powell v. Powell, 285 Ala. 230 , 231 So.2d 103 .

21965–1971
Madden v. State green
ala · 1959
2 sentences

1971Madden v. State, 40 Ala.App. 271 , 112 So.2d 796 , cert. denied, 269 Ala. 697 , 112 So.2d 800 .” Section 443, Title 7, Code 1940, must be reasonably construed so as not to deprive the trial judge of discretion reasonably exercised to limit the range of cross-examination in respect to collateral and irrelevant matter. — Powell v. Powell, 285 Ala. 230 , 231 So.2d 103 .

1971Madden v. State, 40 Ala.App. 271 , 112 So.2d 796 , cert. denied, 269 Ala. 697 , 112 So.2d 800 .” Section 443, Title 7, Code 1940, must be reasonably construed so as not to deprive the trial judge of discretion reasonably exercised to limit the range of cross-examination in respect to collateral and irrelevant matter. — Powell v. Powell, 285 Ala. 230 , 231 So.2d 103 .

21965–1971
Owen v. Slatter green
· 1855
2 sentences

1934The “time when” in section 13 of the Code as applied was adverted to in Sims v. Sims, 210 Ala. 465 , 98 So. 462 , saying: “But this statute applies to acts required to be done within a certain time, and not to time which must intervene before certain things can be done or before certain rights are barred, such as the foregoing quoted provision or the statute of limitations. “ ‘Whatever may be the English doctrine upon the subject, it is the practice of our court to include one day and exclude the other, except when the statute requires so many entire days to intervene — in which case both are

1934The “time when” in section 13 of the Code as applied was adverted to in Sims v. Sims, 210 Ala. 465 , 98 So. 462 , saying: “But this statute applies to acts required to be done within a certain time, and not to time which must intervene before certain things can be done or before certain rights are barred, such as the foregoing quoted provision or the statute of limitations. “ ‘Whatever may be the English doctrine upon the subject, it is the practice of our court to include one day and exclude the other, except when the statute requires so many entire days to intervene — in which case both are

21923–1934
Moon's Adm'r v. Crowder green
ala · 1882
2 sentences

1924Under the old "English rule" it was not permissible to prove a disputed handwriting by comparison or "by placing a writing not in evidence in the case in juxtaposition with the one in dispute for the purpose of allowing a witness or the jury to inspect the two in determining whether or not they were written by the same person." Moon v. Crowder, 72 Ala. 79 .

1916Under what is known as “the old English rule” obtaining in this state before the enactment of this statute, it was not permissible to prove a disputed handwriting by comparison — that is, by placing a writing not in evidence in the case in juxtaposition with the one in dispute for the purpose of allowing a witness or the jury to inspect the two in determining whether or not they were written by the same person. — Moon v. Crowder, 72 Ala. 79 ; Snider v. Burks, 84 Ala. 53 , 4 South. 225 ; Curtis v. State, 118 Ala. 131 , 24 South. 111 ; Hickory v. U. S., 151 U. S. 303 , 14 Sup. Ct. 334, 38 L.

21916–1924
Johnston v. Heirs of Hainesworth neutral
ala · 1844
2 sentences

1916In Johnston v. Hainesworth, supra, on this question it is said: “Until the testimony is taken, it cannot be known whether any conflict will arise so as to make it necessary to refer the decision to a jury, and it is premature .to direct one previously.” In Rice v. Tobias, 83 Ala. 348 , 3 South. 670 , is the expression: “The statute then, as under the Code of 1876, authorized an issue of fact to be tried when ‘necessary,’ as under the old English rule of chancery practice.

1916In Johnston v. Hainesworth, supra, on this question it is said: “Until the testimony is taken, it cannot be known whether any conflict will arise so as to make it necessary to refer the decision to a jury, and it is premature .to direct one previously.” In Rice v. Tobias, 83 Ala. 348 , 3 South. 670 , is the expression: “The statute then, as under the Code of 1876, authorized an issue of fact to be tried when ‘necessary,’ as under the old English rule of chancery practice.

21887–1916
Ward v. Neal neutral
· 1861
2 sentences

1912It is of course true, as argued by appellant, that the old English doctrine of ancient lights is not, and never has been, in force in this state. — Ward v. Neal, 37 Ala. 500 .

1912It is of course true, as argued by appellant, that the old English doctrine of ancient lights is not, and never has been, in force in this state. — Ward v. Neal, 37 Ala. 500 .

21900–1912
Brewer v. Browne neutral
ala · 1880
2 sentences

1910The English rule seems to be that when lands are bought with partnership funds, and for partnership purposes, and the title taken in the name of the partnership, a court of equity will treat them as personalty for all purposes; but the better considered American decisions' hold that such lands are to be treated as personalty until the purposes of the partnership- are accomplished, and then as realty, with the attributes of a tenancy in common. — Brewer v. Browne, 68 Ala. 210 ; Espy v. Comer, 76 Ala. 501 .

1910The English rule seems to be that when lands are bought with partnership funds, and for partnership purposes, and the title taken in the name of the partnership, a court of equity will treat them as personalty for all purposes; but the better considered American decisions' hold that such lands are to be treated as personalty until the purposes of the partnership- are accomplished, and then as realty, with the attributes of a tenancy in common. — Brewer v. Browne, 68 Ala. 210 ; Espy v. Comer, 76 Ala. 501 .

21909–1910
Espy v. Comer green
ala · 1884
2 sentences

1910The English rule seems to be that when lands are bought with partnership funds, and for partnership purposes, and the title taken in the name of the partnership, a court of equity will treat them as personalty for all purposes; but the better considered American decisions' hold that such lands are to be treated as personalty until the purposes of the partnership- are accomplished, and then as realty, with the attributes of a tenancy in common. — Brewer v. Browne, 68 Ala. 210 ; Espy v. Comer, 76 Ala. 501 .

1910The English rule seems to be that when lands are bought with partnership funds, and for partnership purposes, and the title taken in the name of the partnership, a court of equity will treat them as personalty for all purposes; but the better considered American decisions' hold that such lands are to be treated as personalty until the purposes of the partnership- are accomplished, and then as realty, with the attributes of a tenancy in common. — Brewer v. Browne, 68 Ala. 210 ; Espy v. Comer, 76 Ala. 501 .

21909–1910
Goodgain v. State green
alacrimapp · 1999
1 sentence

2014English argues that “there is no evidence to corroborate the hearsay testi mony of Assistant Chief Davis, which is the only evidence supporting the Trial Court’s decision.” (English’s brief, p. 18.) In Dunn, the appellant argued that “the only evidence connecting the clothing to the burglary for which Dunn’s probation was sought to be revoked was hearsay” and that “the trial court’s decision was based entirely on hearsay and the Court of Criminal Appeals’ affirmance of that decision conflicts with Goodgain [v. State, 755 So.2d 591 (Ala.Crim.App.1999)].” 163 So.3d at 1004 .

12014–2014
Trinidad Asphalt Paving Co. v. Robinson neutral
circtedmi · 1892
2 sentences

2014Baez v. U.S. Department of Justice, 684 F.2d 999, 1002-04 (D.C.Cir.1982) (en banc) (per curiam); see generally Vincennes Steel Corp. v. Miller, 94 F.2d 347, 348-49 (5th Cir.1938); Trinidad Asphalt Paving Co. v. Robinson, 52 F. 347 (E.D.Mich.1892); 10 Charles Alan Wright, Arthur R.

2014Baez v. U.S. Department of Justice, 684 F.2d 999, 1002-04 (D.C.Cir.1982) (en banc) (per curiam); see generally Vincennes Steel Corp. v. Miller, 94 F.2d 347, 348-49 (5th Cir.1938); Trinidad Asphalt Paving Co. v. Robinson, 52 F. 347 (E.D.Mich.1892); 10 Charles Alan Wright, Arthur R.

12014–2014
Dunn v. State green
ala · 2014
1 sentence

2014English argues that “there is no evidence to corroborate the hearsay testi mony of Assistant Chief Davis, which is the only evidence supporting the Trial Court’s decision.” (English’s brief, p. 18.) In Dunn, the appellant argued that “the only evidence connecting the clothing to the burglary for which Dunn’s probation was sought to be revoked was hearsay” and that “the trial court’s decision was based entirely on hearsay and the Court of Criminal Appeals’ affirmance of that decision conflicts with Goodgain [v. State, 755 So.2d 591 (Ala.Crim.App.1999)].” 163 So.3d at 1004 .

12014–2014
Ex Parte Home Indem. Ins. Co. green
ala · 1979
2 sentences

2009Similarly, the notion, as expressed in Ex parte Home Indemnity Insurance Co., 374 So.2d 1356 (Ala.1979), that trial courts, in certain types of cases, could require language in a supersedeas bond that would make the unsuccessful appellant responsible for the appellee's attorney fees on appeal leaves an "unlevel playing field" in such cases in two respects: 1.

2009Similarly, the notion, as expressed in Ex parte Home Indemnity Insurance Co., 374 So.2d 1356 (Ala.1979), that trial courts, in certain types of cases, could require language in a supersedeas bond that would make the unsuccessful appellant responsible for the appellee's attorney fees on appeal leaves an "unlevel playing field" in such cases in two respects: 1.

12009–2009
Baker v. State green
ala · 1948
2 sentences

1997In fact, in Minges v. City of Birmingham, 251 Ala. 65, 69 , 36 So.2d 93, 96 (1948), Justice Livingston, writing for this Court in an actual case, provided a more complete quote of the relevant passage from American Jurisprudence, as follows: “Under the English rule, a lottery consists in the distribution of money or other property by chance, and nothing but chance, that is, by doing that which is equivalent to drawing lots.

1997In fact, in Minges v. City of Birmingham, 251 Ala. 65, 69 , 36 So.2d 93, 96 (1948), Justice Livingston, writing for this Court in an actual case, provided a more complete quote of the relevant passage from American Jurisprudence, as follows: “Under the English rule, a lottery consists in the distribution of money or other property by chance, and nothing but chance, that is, by doing that which is equivalent to drawing lots.

11997–1997
Johnson v. State green
alactapp · 1964
2 sentences

1985Any matter within the issues of the trial may be put to the witness even though this expands beyond his testimony in chief," 42 Ala. App. at 514 , 169 So.2d at 775 .

1985Any matter within the issues of the trial may be put to the witness even though this expands beyond his testimony in chief," 42 Ala. App. at 514 , 169 So.2d at 775 .

11985–1985
Lone Pine Lawn Corporation v. Helvering neutral
ca2 · 1941
2 sentences

1975They seem to run the gamut from Mr. Justice Harlan's expression that punctuation is disregarded—Hammock v. Loan and Trust Co., 105 U.S. 77 at 84 , 26 L.Ed. 1111 to Learned Hand's. "* * * [T]he English doctrine that the punctuation of a statute shall not count does not apply in this country."—Lone Pine Lawn Corp. v. Helvering, 2 Cir., 121 F.2d 935 .

1975They seem to run the gamut from Mr. Justice Harlan’s expression that punctuation is disregarded—Hammock v. Loan and Trust Co., 105 U.S. 77 at 84 , 26 L.Ed. 1111 to Learned Hand’s. “* * * [T]he English doctrine that the punctuation of a statute shall not count does not apply in this country.” — Lone Pine Lawn Corp. v. Helvering, 2 Cir., 121 F.2d 935 .

11975–1975
Hammock v. Loan & Trust Co. green
· 1882
2 sentences

1975They seem to run the gamut from Mr. Justice Harlan’s expression that punctuation is disregarded—Hammock v. Loan and Trust Co., 105 U.S. 77 at 84 , 26 L.Ed. 1111 to Learned Hand’s. “* * * [T]he English doctrine that the punctuation of a statute shall not count does not apply in this country.” — Lone Pine Lawn Corp. v. Helvering, 2 Cir., 121 F.2d 935 .

1975They seem to run the gamut from Mr. Justice Harlan’s expression that punctuation is disregarded—Hammock v. Loan and Trust Co., 105 U.S. 77 at 84 , 26 L.Ed. 1111 to Learned Hand’s. “* * * [T]he English doctrine that the punctuation of a statute shall not count does not apply in this country.” — Lone Pine Lawn Corp. v. Helvering, 2 Cir., 121 F.2d 935 .

11975–1975
Danzey v. State neutral
ala · 1880
2 sentences

1975Danzey, supra, adopts the former view because, among other things, legislative procedure is based on hearing statutes read, [1] i. e., the ear is the apprehending organ, not the eye.

1975Danzey, supra, adopts the former view because, among other things, legislative procedure is based on hearing statutes read, 1 i. e., the ear is the apprehending organ, not the eye.

11975–1975
Powell v. Powell green
· 1970
2 sentences

1971Madden v. State, 40 Ala.App. 271 , 112 So.2d 796 , cert. denied, 269 Ala. 697 , 112 So.2d 800 .” Section 443, Title 7, Code 1940, must be reasonably construed so as not to deprive the trial judge of discretion reasonably exercised to limit the range of cross-examination in respect to collateral and irrelevant matter. — Powell v. Powell, 285 Ala. 230 , 231 So.2d 103 .

1971Madden v. State, 40 Ala.App. 271 , 112 So.2d 796 , cert. denied, 269 Ala. 697 , 112 So.2d 800 .” Section 443, Title 7, Code 1940, must be reasonably construed so as not to deprive the trial judge of discretion reasonably exercised to limit the range of cross-examination in respect to collateral and irrelevant matter. — Powell v. Powell, 285 Ala. 230 , 231 So.2d 103 .

11971–1971
Bales v. State green
· 1879
2 sentences

1966In 1923 the Code Committee, to modify the English rule (see Anno. 99 A.L.R.2d 7, 16, § 2 (a)) as shown in Bales v. State, 63 Ala. 30 , enacted what is T. 30, § 52, of the present Code.

1966In 1923 the Code Committee, to modify the English rule (see Anno. 99 A.L.R.2d 7, 16, § 2 (a)) as shown in Bales v. State, 63 Ala. 30 , enacted what is T. 30, § 52, of the present Code.

11966–1966
Hartfield v. Roper green
nysupct · 1839
2 sentences

1958Hartfield v. Roper, 21 Wend. 615 , 34 Am.Dec. 273.

1958Hartfield v. Roper, 21 Wend. 615 , 34 Am.Dec. 273.

11958–1958
Miller v. Black Rock Springs Improvement Co. green
va · 1901
2 sentences

1936Co., 99 Va. 747, 749 , 40 S.E. 27 , 86 Am.St.Rep. 924 , where it was said that the interception of water was for domestic purposes, but it adopted the English rule, although there was no liability under the American rule of “reasonable use.” And in the Compton Case, supra, it is said that if the question comes before the court, it would be free to consider it de novo.

1936Co., 99 Va. 747, 749 , 40 S.E. 27 , 86 Am.St.Rep. 924 , where it was said that the interception of water was for domestic purposes, but it adopted the English rule, although there was no liability under the American rule of “reasonable use.” And in the Compton Case, supra, it is said that if the question comes before the court, it would be free to consider it de novo.

11936–1936
Stewart v. Keller neutral
ala · 1916
11934–1934
Cox v. Hutto neutral
ala · 1927
2 sentences

1934Dec. 745 .” As to such a motion for a new trial, as that before us, section 13 of the Code applies by the analogy of our decisions: Cox v. Hutto et al., 216 Ala. 23 , 113 So. 40 , an appeal from an order; Yates v. Dobson, 213 Ala. 547 , 105 So. 691 , the filing of a claim against decedent’s estate; Carnley, Judge, v. Moore, 218 Ala. 274 , 118 So. 409 , as to publication required of a proposed local law; Stewart v. Keller, 197 Ala. 575 , 73 So. 89 , time for presenting bill of exceptions and the expiration thereof.

1934Dec. 745 .” As to such a motion for a new trial, as that before us, section 13 of the Code applies by the analogy of our decisions: Cox v. Hutto et al., 216 Ala. 23 , 113 So. 40 , an appeal from an order; Yates v. Dobson, 213 Ala. 547 , 105 So. 691 , the filing of a claim against decedent’s estate; Carnley, Judge, v. Moore, 218 Ala. 274 , 118 So. 409 , as to publication required of a proposed local law; Stewart v. Keller, 197 Ala. 575 , 73 So. 89 , time for presenting bill of exceptions and the expiration thereof.

11934–1934
Yates v. Dobson neutral
ala · 1925
11934–1934
Carnley v. Moore green
ala · 1928
11934–1934
J. Bice & Sons v. Robinson neutral
ala · 1923
11934–1934
Sims v. Sims neutral
ala · 1923
11934–1934
Southern Pacific Railroad v. United States green
· 1897
11931–1931
Marski v. Simmerling neutral
illappct · 1892
11930–1930
Chapman v. Lee neutral
ala · 1876
11925–1925
Wade v. Killough green
ala · 1834
11925–1925
In Re the Probate of the Will of Turner neutral
ny · 1912
11918–1918
Hickory v. United States green
· 1894
11916–1916
Rice & Wilson v. Tobias neutral
ala · 1887
11916–1916
Snider v. Burks green
· 1887
11916–1916
Barrows v. Bell green
· 1856
11913–1913
Barfield v. Barfield neutral
· 1903
11912–1912
Forrest v. Robinson neutral
ala · 1841
11911–1911
Southern Railway Co. v. Hubbard neutral
ala · 1896
11911–1911

Where else courts name it

NY 153 (1800–2018) PA 69 (1835–2024) IL 68 (1849–2017) TX 58 (1855–2024) CA 58 (1859–2025) MD 54 (1891–2016) NJ 50 (1864–2021) MO 47 (1857–2008) AL 44 (1834–2014) VA 40 (1835–2009) NC 37 (1882–1981) GA 37 (1848–2024) OH 35 (1831–2022) IN 33 (1842–2019) MI 33 (1874–2023) IA 31 (1867–2022) FL 29 (1855–2022) KY 28 (1868–2025) TN 26 (1875–2017) RI 24 (1851–2016) OR 23 (1888–2017) AZ 22 (1874–2025) WI 22 (1843–2024) WV 22 (1885–2020) VT 20 (1844–2008) NE 19 (1897–2005) CT 19 (1839–2025) AR 19 (1894–2025) DE 17 (1838–2022) CO 17 (1879–1966) MA 17 (1848–1939) OK 15 (1912–2025) HI 14 (1900–1985) UT 14 (1896–2023) KS 13 (1900–2020) MN 13 (1894–1991) MT 12 (1882–2006) WA 11 (1906–1968) SC 11 (1817–2021) DC 9 (1889–2011) NH 7 (1850–1928) NM 7 (1897–2013) NV 7 (1878–1993) ND 7 (1891–1975) MS 7 (1873–2018) LA 6 (1893–2004) PR 5 (1921–1956) WY 5 (1948–1986) ID 4 (1911–1968) ME 4 (1881–2010) SD 3 (1894–1911) VI 2 (2006–2014)

Opinions by the citing court's state. A doctrine retained in one state and abandoned in another shows up here as a year span that stalls.

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