81 Florida opinions name it 2 courts 1982–2026 6 in the last five years
The cases below were cited by Florida courts in a sentence that names this issue. Sides come from how each citing opinion treated the case (Syfertize flag on that citation), so a case can appear on both: that is where the law is contested. A red or yellow chip is the case's own overall treatment.
| Case | Followed | Cited |
|---|---|---|
Slomowitz v. Walkergreen2 sentences2012The Second District held that “[t]he banking statute ... creates a presumption which shifts the burden of proof to the estate under section 90.304, Florida Statutes (1987), and increases the burden to the clear and convincing standard.” Combee, 583 So.2d at 711 (citing Slomowitz v. Walker, 429 So.2d 797 (Fla. 4th DCA 1983)). 2010Acevedo v. State, 787 So.2d 127, 130 (Fla. 3d DCA 2001) (quoting Slomowitz v. Walker, 429 So.2d 797, 800 (Fla.4th DCA 1983)); see also Hernandez v. State, 16 So.3d 336, 340 (Fla.4th DCA 2009) ("To meet the clear and convincing standard, `[t]he evidence must be credible; the memories of the witnesses must be clear and without confusion; and the sum total of the evidence must be of sufficient weight to convince the trier of fact without hesitancy.'" (quoting J.F. v. Dep't of Children & Families, 890 So.2d 434, 439 (Fla.4th DCA 2004))). | 6 | 9 |
JG v. Department of Children and Familiesgreen2 sentences2021Analysis “While a trial court’s decision to terminate parental rights must be based upon clear and convincing evidence, our review is limited to whether competent substantial evidence supports the trial court’s judgment.” M.D. v. State, Dep’t of Child. & Fams., 187 So. 3d 1275, 1277 (Fla. 4th DCA 2016) (quoting J.G. v. Dep’t of Child. & Fams., 22 So. 3d 774, 775 (Fla. 4th DCA 2009)). “[W]e look at the evidence presented, not in the light most favorable to the parents, but in a neutral manner in which we must assess whether competent substantial evidence supports the trial court’s conclusion . 2021Analysis “While a trial court’s decision to terminate parental rights must be based upon clear and convincing evidence, our review is limited to whether competent substantial evidence supports the trial court’s judgment.” M.D. v. State, Dep’t of Child. & Fams., 187 So. 3d 1275, 1277 (Fla. 4th DCA 2016) (quoting J.G. v. Dep’t of Child. & Fams., 22 So. 3d 774, 775 (Fla. 4th DCA 2009)). “[W]e look at the evidence presented, not in the light most favorable to the parents, but in a neutral manner in which we must assess whether competent substantial evidence supports the trial court’s conclusion . | 2 | 2 |
M.D., the Father v. State of Florida, Department of Children and Familiesgreen2 sentences2021Analysis “While a trial court’s decision to terminate parental rights must be based upon clear and convincing evidence, our review is limited to whether competent substantial evidence supports the trial court’s judgment.” M.D. v. State, Dep’t of Child. & Fams., 187 So. 3d 1275, 1277 (Fla. 4th DCA 2016) (quoting J.G. v. Dep’t of Child. & Fams., 22 So. 3d 774, 775 (Fla. 4th DCA 2009)). “[W]e look at the evidence presented, not in the light most favorable to the parents, but in a neutral manner in which we must assess whether competent substantial evidence supports the trial court’s conclusion . 2021Analysis “While a trial court’s decision to terminate parental rights must be based upon clear and convincing evidence, our review is limited to whether competent substantial evidence supports the trial court’s judgment.” M.D. v. State, Dep’t of Child. & Fams., 187 So. 3d 1275, 1277 (Fla. 4th DCA 2016) (quoting J.G. v. Dep’t of Child. & Fams., 22 So. 3d 774, 775 (Fla. 4th DCA 2009)). “[W]e look at the evidence presented, not in the light most favorable to the parents, but in a neutral manner in which we must assess whether competent substantial evidence supports the trial court’s conclusion . | 2 | 2 |
D.G. v. Department of Children & Familiesgreen2 sentences2021Analysis “While a trial court’s decision to terminate parental rights must be based upon clear and convincing evidence, our review is limited to whether competent substantial evidence supports the trial court’s judgment.” M.D. v. State, Dep’t of Child. & Fams., 187 So. 3d 1275, 1277 (Fla. 4th DCA 2016) (quoting J.G. v. Dep’t of Child. & Fams., 22 So. 3d 774, 775 (Fla. 4th DCA 2009)). “[W]e look at the evidence presented, not in the light most favorable to the parents, but in a neutral manner in which we must assess whether competent substantial evidence supports the trial court’s conclusion . 2021Analysis “While a trial court’s decision to terminate parental rights must be based upon clear and convincing evidence, our review is limited to whether competent substantial evidence supports the trial court’s judgment.” M.D. v. State, Dep’t of Child. & Fams., 187 So. 3d 1275, 1277 (Fla. 4th DCA 2016) (quoting J.G. v. Dep’t of Child. & Fams., 22 So. 3d 774, 775 (Fla. 4th DCA 2009)). “[W]e look at the evidence presented, not in the light most favorable to the parents, but in a neutral manner in which we must assess whether competent substantial evidence supports the trial court’s conclusion . | 2 | 2 |
Nixon v. Stategreen2 sentences2012See Nixon, 2 So.3d at 145. . 2010See Nixon, 2 So.3d at 145 ("We need not address this claim because the circuit court held that Nixon could not establish his mental retardation under either the clear and convincing evidence standard or the preponderance of the evidence standard.") (citing Jones v. State, 966 So.2d 319, 329-30 (Fla. 2007)). | 2 | 2 |
McKesson Drug Co. v. Williamsgreen2 sentences2011See McKesson Drug Co. v. Williams, 706 So.2d 352, 354 (Fla. 1st DCA 1998) (“the appellate court’s function is not to conduct a de novo proceeding or reweigh the evidence by determining independently whether the evidence as a whole satisfies the clear and convincing standard, but to determine whether the record contains competent substantial evidence to meet the clear and convincing evidence standard.”). 2011See McKesson Drug Co. v. Williams, 706 So.2d 352, 354 (Fla. 1st DCA 1998) ("the appellate court's function is not to conduct a de novo proceeding or reweigh the evidence by determining independently whether the evidence as a whole satisfies the clear and convincing standard, but to determine whether the record contains competent substantial evidence to meet the clear and convincing evidence standard."). | 2 | 2 |
In Re Kinseygreen2 sentences2010The clear and convincing standard is "more than a `preponderance of the evidence,' but the proof need not be `beyond and to the exclusion of a reasonable doubt.'" Id. (quoting In re Kinsey, 842 So.2d 77, 85 (Fla.2003)). 2010The clear and convincing standard is “more than a ‘preponderance of the evidence,’ but the proof need not be ‘beyond and to the exclusion of a reasonable doubt.’ ” Id. (quoting In re Kinsey, 842 So.2d 77, 85 (Fla.2003)). | 2 | 2 |
JF v. Department of Children & Familiesgreen2 sentences2010Acevedo v. State, 787 So.2d 127, 130 (Fla. 3d DCA 2001) (quoting Slomowitz v. Walker, 429 So.2d 797, 800 (Fla.4th DCA 1983)); see also Hernandez v. State, 16 So.3d 336, 340 (Fla.4th DCA 2009) ("To meet the clear and convincing standard, `[t]he evidence must be credible; the memories of the witnesses must be clear and without confusion; and the sum total of the evidence must be of sufficient weight to convince the trier of fact without hesitancy.'" (quoting J.F. v. Dep't of Children & Families, 890 So.2d 434, 439 (Fla.4th DCA 2004))). 2010Acevedo v. State, 787 So.2d 127, 130 (Fla. 3d DCA 2001) (quoting Slomowitz v. Walker, 429 So.2d 797, 800 (Fla. 4th DCA 1983)); see also Hernandez v. State, 16 So.3d 336, 340 (Fla. 4th DCA 2009) (“To meet the clear and convincing standard, ‘[t]he evidence must be credible; the memories of the witnesses must be clear and without confusion; and the sum total of the evidence must be of sufficient weight to convince the trier of fact without hesitancy.’ ” (quoting J.F. v. Dep’t of Children & Families, 890 So.2d 434, 439 (Fla. 4th DCA 2004))). | 2 | 2 |
In Re Guardianship of Schiavogreen2 sentences2005This Court has noted that "even when the evidence is in conflict, the proof may be more than sufficient to meet the standard of clear and convincing evidence." In re Bryan, 550 So.2d 447 , 448 n. * (Fla.1989); see also In re Guardianship of Schiavo, 780 So.2d 176, 179 (Fla. 2d DCA 2001) ("The clear and convincing standard of proof, while very high, permits a decision in the face of inconsistent or conflicting evidence."). 2005This Court has noted that “even when the evidence is in conflict, the proof may be more than sufficient to meet the standard of clear and convincing evidence.” In re Bryan, 550 So.2d 447 , 448 n. * (Fla.1989); see also In re Guardianship of Schiavo, 780 So.2d 176, 179 (Fla. 2d DCA 2001) (“The clear and convincing standard of proof, while very high, permits a decision in the face of inconsistent or conflicting evidence.”). | 2 | 2 |
In Re Bryangreen2 sentences2005This Court has noted that "even when the evidence is in conflict, the proof may be more than sufficient to meet the standard of clear and convincing evidence." In re Bryan, 550 So.2d 447 , 448 n. * (Fla.1989); see also In re Guardianship of Schiavo, 780 So.2d 176, 179 (Fla. 2d DCA 2001) ("The clear and convincing standard of proof, while very high, permits a decision in the face of inconsistent or conflicting evidence."). 2005This Court has noted that “even when the evidence is in conflict, the proof may be more than sufficient to meet the standard of clear and convincing evidence.” In re Bryan, 550 So.2d 447 , 448 n. * (Fla.1989); see also In re Guardianship of Schiavo, 780 So.2d 176, 179 (Fla. 2d DCA 2001) (“The clear and convincing standard of proof, while very high, permits a decision in the face of inconsistent or conflicting evidence.”). | 2 | 2 |
Boller v. Stategreen2 sentences2004In Boller v. State, 775 So.2d 408, 409 (Fla. 1st DCA 2000), the court stated that “the need for treatment and medication and the refusal to take psychotropic medication despite a deteriorating mental condition, standing alone, do not justify involuntary commitment under the Baker Act.” In addition, “[c]onclusory testimony, unsubstantiated by facts in evidence, that a patient has ... the possibility of substantial harm to herself, is insufficient to satisfy. the statutory criteria by the clear and convincing evidence standard.” Id. at 410 . 2004In Boller v. State, 775 So.2d 408, 409 (Fla. 1st DCA 2000), the court stated that “the need for treatment and medication and the refusal to take psychotropic medication despite a deteriorating mental condition, standing alone, do not justify involuntary commitment under the Baker Act.” In addition, “[c]onclusory testimony, unsubstantiated by facts in evidence, that a patient has ... the possibility of substantial harm to herself, is insufficient to satisfy. the statutory criteria by the clear and convincing evidence standard.” Id. at 410 . | 2 | 2 |
In Interest of TSgreen2 sentences1990See also, In the Interest of T.S., 511 So.2d 435 (Fla. 5th [2nd] DCA 1987). 1990See also, In the Interest of T.S., 511 So.2d 435 (Fla. 5th [2nd] DCA 1987). | 2 | 2 |
Spaziano v. Stategreen2 sentences1989Tedder v. State, 322 So.2d 908 (Fla. 1975)." *846 Spaziano v. State, 433 So.2d 508, 511 (Fla. 1983), aff'd, 468 U.S. 447 , 104 S.Ct. 3154 , 82 L.Ed.2d 340 (1984). 1987In Spaziano v. State, 433 So.2d 508, 511 (Fla. 1983), aff'd, 468 U.S. 447 , 104 S.Ct. 3154 , 82 L.Ed.2d 340 (1984), this Court held that the facts and circumstances of the crime were such that the facts suggesting that the death sentence be imposed over the jury's recommendation of life ... meets the clear and convincing test to allow override of the jury's recommendation in accordance with previous decisions of this Court. | 2 | 2 |
Norman v. Stategreen2 sentences1989See Norman v. State, 379 So.2d 643 (Fla. 1980); Castillo v. State, 536 So.2d 1134 (Fla. 2d DCA 1988); *548 Tennyson v. State, 469 So.2d 133, 136 (Fla. 5th DCA 1985). 1989Norman v. State, 379 So.2d 643, 647 (Fla. 1980); Bailey v. State, 319 So.2d 22, 27 (Fla. 1975). | 2 | 2 |
Knowlton v. Stategreen2 sentences1985Cf. Knowlton v. State, 466 So.2d 278, 281 (Fla. 4th DCA 1985). . 1985Cf. Knowlton v. State, 466 So.2d 278, 281 (Fla. 4th DCA 1985). [5] It is only with the greatest temerity that we attempt to follow Judge Letts in undertaking this task, Mischler, 458 So.2d at 39-40 , particularly since our route and our conclusion appear to differ from his. [6] It may be helpful, in resolving the question of whether or not a particular factor is inherent in a particular crime, to refer to the now-accepted lesser included offense Blockburger double jeopardy analysis. | 2 | 2 |
In Re Andrewsgreen2 sentences2010The clear and convincing standard is "more than a `preponderance of the evidence,' but the proof need not be `beyond and to the exclusion of a reasonable doubt.'" Id. (quoting In re Kinsey, 842 So.2d 77, 85 (Fla.2003)). 2010The clear and convincing standard is “more than a ‘preponderance of the evidence,’ but the proof need not be ‘beyond and to the exclusion of a reasonable doubt.’ ” Id. (quoting In re Kinsey, 842 So.2d 77, 85 (Fla.2003)). | 1 | 3 |
Ferris v. Turlingtongreen2 sentences2004Second, it is too speculative to conclude, because the proposed amendment requires the revocation of some medical doctors' licenses on the basis of findings reached under the preponderance of the evidence standard, rather than the clear and convincing standard of proof required under Ferris v. Turlington, 510 So.2d 292 (Fla.1987), that the judiciary will be forced to either overrule Ferris or change the standard of proof in malpractice cases. 1997As the unanimous court observed through Justice Barkett, "In a case where the proceedings implicate the loss of livelihood, an elevated standard is necessary to protect the rights and interests of the accused." 510 So.2d at 295 ; see also Hoover v. Agency for Health Care Admin., 676 So.2d 1380 (Fla. 3d DCA 1996); Nair v. Department of Bus. & Prof. | 1 | 3 |
People in Interest of CAJgreen1 sentence2026C.A.J., 709 P.2d 604, 606 (Colo. App. 1985)). 4 In sum, the trial court correctly applied the clear and convincing standard to the findings required under Florida law and the beyond a reasonable doubt standard to the finding required by 25 U.S.C. § 1912 (f). | 1 | 1 |
Panetti v. Quartermangreen1 sentence2025In denying the requested relief, the circuit court found that Hutchinson could not prevail under the clear-and-convincing standard or the preponderance-of-the-evidence standard. -7- illness makes him unable to ‘reach a rational understanding of the reason for [his] execution.’ ” Madison v. Alabama, 586 U.S. 265, 274 (2019) (alteration in original) (quoting Panetti v. Quarterman, 551 U.S. 930, 958 (2007)). | 1 | 1 |
Madison v. Alabamagreen1 sentence2025In denying the requested relief, the circuit court found that Hutchinson could not prevail under the clear-and-convincing standard or the preponderance-of-the-evidence standard. -7- illness makes him unable to ‘reach a rational understanding of the reason for [his] execution.’ ” Madison v. Alabama, 586 U.S. 265, 274 (2019) (alteration in original) (quoting Panetti v. Quarterman, 551 U.S. 930, 958 (2007)). | 1 | 1 |
| Chuck v. City of Homestead Police Dept.green | 1 | 1 |
| In Re DNOgreen | 1 | 1 |
| State, Department of Highway Safety & Motor Vehicles v. Frasergreen | 1 | 1 |
| Nayee v. Nayeegreen | 1 | 1 |
| Martin v. Stategreen | 1 | 1 |
| Douglass v. Aldridgegreen | 1 | 1 |
| Harris v. Stategreen | 1 | 1 |
| JAMES S. WINDER, Former Husband v. Dian A. Winder, Former Wifegreen | 1 | 1 |
| In Re MFgreen | 1 | 1 |
| Reid v. Estate of Sondergreen | 1 | 1 |
| Hernandez v. Stategreen | 1 | 1 |
| Acevedo v. Stategreen | 1 | 1 |
| Jones v. Stategreen | 1 | 1 |
| Dormezil v. Stategreen | 1 | 1 |
| Denehy v. Stategreen | 1 | 1 |
| Hoffman v. Jonesgreen | 1 | 1 |
| State v. Grahamgreen | 1 | 1 |
| In Re Advisory Opin. to Atty. Gen. Englishgreen | 1 | 1 |
| Westerheide v. Stategreen | 1 | 1 |
| Adv. Op. to Atty. Gen. Re Ltd. Casinosgreen | 1 | 1 |
| Case | Negative | Cited |
|---|---|---|
| No negative-treatment citations attached to this issue in Florida. Read the followed side critically anyway. | ||
| Case | Cited | Years |
|---|---|---|
In Re Estate of Gainer
neutral
2 sentences1992NOTES [1] Although the deceased coincidentally had the same last name, this case is unrelated to In re Estate of Gainer, 579 So.2d 739 (Fla. 1st DCA 1991). [2] Contrary to respondents' argument, however, we also agree that in exchange for the creation of a presumption which shifts the burden of proof to the estate under section 90.304, Florida Statutes (1987), and increases the burden to a clear and convincing standard, the estate is entitled to introduce parol evidence. [3] There is a notation on the card dated December 13, 1984, which states, "Delete Jerry and Dollie." However, petitioners a 1991Recognizing that our decision may conflict with In re Alma S. Gainer, 579 So.2d 739 (Fla. 1st DCA 1991), we hold that the limited evidence presented to the trial court was insufficient under the clear and convincing standard to prove that Ms. Com-bee had an intent contrary to that demon strated by the unambiguous language contained in the written contracts. | 3 | 1991–1992 |
Tedder v. State
green
2 sentences1989Tedder v. State, 322 So.2d 908 (Fla. 1975)." *846 Spaziano v. State, 433 So.2d 508, 511 (Fla. 1983), aff'd, 468 U.S. 447 , 104 S.Ct. 3154 , 82 L.Ed.2d 340 (1984). 1987Tedder v. State, 322 So.2d 908 (Fla. 1975). | 3 | 1983–1989 |
J.E. v. Department of Children & Families
green
2 sentences2021Analysis “While a trial court’s decision to terminate parental rights must be based upon clear and convincing evidence, our review is limited to whether competent substantial evidence supports the trial court’s judgment.” M.D. v. State, Dep’t of Child. & Fams., 187 So. 3d 1275, 1277 (Fla. 4th DCA 2016) (quoting J.G. v. Dep’t of Child. & Fams., 22 So. 3d 774, 775 (Fla. 4th DCA 2009)). “[W]e look at the evidence presented, not in the light most favorable to the parents, but in a neutral manner in which we must assess whether competent substantial evidence supports the trial court’s conclusion . 2021Analysis “While a trial court’s decision to terminate parental rights must be based upon clear and convincing evidence, our review is limited to whether competent substantial evidence supports the trial court’s judgment.” M.D. v. State, Dep’t of Child. & Fams., 187 So. 3d 1275, 1277 (Fla. 4th DCA 2016) (quoting J.G. v. Dep’t of Child. & Fams., 22 So. 3d 774, 775 (Fla. 4th DCA 2009)). “[W]e look at the evidence presented, not in the light most favorable to the parents, but in a neutral manner in which we must assess whether competent substantial evidence supports the trial court’s conclusion . | 2 | 2021–2021 |
Kh v. State, Dept. of Health & Rehab. Serv.
green
2 sentences1990This evidence is sufficient to sustain the clear and convincing standard and is proof of “significant impairment” as required by In the Interest of K.H., 13 F.L.W. 1207 [ 527 So.2d 230 ] (Fla. 1st DCA May 18, 1988); In the Interest of G.D.H., 498 So.2d 676 (Fla. 1st DCA 1986). 1990This evidence is sufficient to sustain the clear and convincing standard and is proof of "significant impairment" as required by In the Interest of K.H., 13 F.L.W. 1207 [ 527 So.2d 230 ] (Fla. 1st DCA May 18, 1988); In the Interest of G.D.H., 498 So.2d 676 (Fla. 1st DCA 1986). | 2 | 1990–1990 |
In Interest of Gdh
green
2 sentences1990This evidence is sufficient to sustain the clear and convincing standard and is proof of “significant impairment” as required by In the Interest of K.H., 13 F.L.W. 1207 [ 527 So.2d 230 ] (Fla. 1st DCA May 18, 1988); In the Interest of G.D.H., 498 So.2d 676 (Fla. 1st DCA 1986). 1990This evidence is sufficient to sustain the clear and convincing standard and is proof of "significant impairment" as required by In the Interest of K.H., 13 F.L.W. 1207 [ 527 So.2d 230 ] (Fla. 1st DCA May 18, 1988); In the Interest of G.D.H., 498 So.2d 676 (Fla. 1st DCA 1986). | 2 | 1990–1990 |
Spaziano v. Florida
red
2 sentences1987In Spaziano v. State, 433 So.2d 508, 511 (Fla. 1983), aff'd, 468 U.S. 447 , 104 S.Ct. 3154 , 82 L.Ed.2d 340 (1984), this Court held that the facts and circumstances of the crime were such that the facts suggesting that the death sentence be imposed over the jury's recommendation of life ... meets the clear and convincing test to allow override of the jury's recommendation in accordance with previous decisions of this Court. 1987In Spaziano v. State, 433 So.2d 508, 511 (Fla. 1983), aff'd, 468 U.S. 447 , 104 S.Ct. 3154 , 82 L.Ed.2d 340 (1984), this Court held that the facts and circumstances of the crime were such that the facts suggesting that the death sentence be imposed over the jury's recommendation of life ... meets the clear and convincing test to allow override of the jury's recommendation in accordance with previous decisions of this Court. | 2 | 1987–1989 |
Canal Authority v. Ocala Mfg., Ice & Packing Co.
green
2 sentences1984Id. at 327 . 1982Id. | 2 | 1982–1984 |
N.B. v. Florida Department of Children & Families
green
1 sentence2021Id. at 1188 . | 1 | 2021–2021 |
Nl v. Dept. of Children and Family Ser.
green
1 sentence2019Id. at 999–1000. | 1 | 2019–2019 |
Fraser v. DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY
green
2 sentences2018Factors to be considered in a trial court’s assessment of the bona fide nature of a claim “include, but are not limited to, physical possession of the property and sources from which the money or other intangible property may have originated, such as employment, business ventures, loans, gifts and the like.” Id. 2 Pursuant to the 2016 amendments to section 932.704(8), the clear and convincing standard was changed to beyond a reasonable doubt. 4 Given that “this is a factual determination to be made by the trial judge, the claimant ought to have the opportunity to present his evidence on the is 2018Factors to be considered in a trial court’s assessment of the bona fide nature of a claim “include, but are not limited to, physical possession of the property and sources from which the money or other intangible property may have originated, such as employment, business ventures, loans, gifts and the like.” Id. 2 Pursuant to the 2016 amendments to section 932.704(8), the clear and convincing standard was changed to beyond a reasonable doubt. 4 Given that “this is a factual determination to be made by the trial judge, the claimant ought to have the opportunity to present his evidence on the is | 1 | 2018–2018 |
| Morey v. Everbank green | 1 | 2013–2013 |
| LeWinter v. Guardianship of LeWinter green | 1 | 2012–2012 |
| Howard v. State green | 1 | 2012–2012 |
| In Re Estate of Combee neutral | 1 | 2012–2012 |
| Audano v. State green | 1 | 2009–2009 |
| DEPT. OF BANKING & FIN. v. Osborne Stern green | 1 | 2008–2008 |
| In Re Estate of Combee green | 1 | 2004–2004 |
| Curtis Publishing Co. v. Butts green | 1 | 2002–2002 |
| In Re McAllister green | 1 | 2002–2002 |
| In Re McMillan green | 1 | 2002–2002 |
| In Re Frank green | 1 | 2002–2002 |
| Claims Management, Inc. v. Drewno green | 1 | 1999–1999 |
| Watson v. State green | 1 | 1996–1996 |
| Davis v. Wright green | 1 | 1994–1994 |
| Silva v. Superior Court green | 1 | 1994–1994 |
| Devous v. Wyoming State Board of Medical Examiners green | 1 | 1994–1994 |
| Matter of Zar green | 1 | 1994–1994 |
Counted by distinct opinions that both name this issue and are annotated to the section; sections every opinion cites regardless of issue are not filtered here, so read the counts against the total above.
Opinions by the citing court's state. A doctrine retained in one state and abandoned in another shows up here as a year span that stalls.